Discussion:
Backup help - creating a journal using /input_file OR journal from existing saveset
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IanD
2017-02-28 02:51:09 UTC
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Version: V8.4-2L1
Facility: Backup
Wanting: To produce a journal file from a backup operation

I tried...

$backup/journal=journal file_list/input_files saveset.bck/save

but alas, for some reason, backup doesn't want to produce a journal file when you use the /input_files qualifier (why oh why not, since the journal file appears to be populated when the saveset is closed anyhow ???)

The /input_files list contains wildcard selection, which is generated by a previous operation that selects files based on data record update date, which backup does not seem to support directly (unlike the directory command that does. again, why oh why can backup not support data record update dates directly?)

This is yet another example of how VMS file redirection is somewhat lacking (IMO), but this is another topic I guess. If directory output could feed backup as part of a backup input parameter it sure would make things easier /Gripe switch: OFF

So, how can I then create a journal file from a backup saveset (since it doesn't seem to support journal file creation with the /input_files qualifier (unless I am doing it wrong?)

I tried backup/list/journal=journal saveset/save NL: but backup bawks at my use of the NL: device because it is not part of a saveset in itself

So, is there:

1. A way to generate a journal file from backup using the /input_files qualifier ? (my preferred option)

2. A way to generate a journal file from backup saveset by doing a second backup pass operation over the saveset (rather I/O wasteful IMO)

Note: I have not used backup for years!! Data protector has ruined all my ancient operator backup experience, so sorry if the answer is simplistic because I just don't see it...
IanD
2017-02-28 04:40:11 UTC
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The plot thickens...

When I run the com file interactively it works

Submitted as a batch job, it doesn't

The submitted job runs under another username but the procedures turns all privs. on anyhow and the submitted account has a lot higher process quotas...
Paul Sture
2017-03-04 08:27:21 UTC
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Post by IanD
The plot thickens...
When I run the com file interactively it works
Submitted as a batch job, it doesn't
The submitted job runs under another username but the procedures turns
all privs. on anyhow and the submitted account has a lot higher
process quotas...
This screams of being on the limit of open file quotas.
--
A supercomputer is a device for turning compute-bound problems into
I/O-bound problems. ---Ken Batcher
IanD
2017-02-28 05:08:35 UTC
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ok, so I have got a bit further, but no closer to working out why it is failing...

It seems to have issues on the file deletion pass

%BACKUP-I-STARTDELETE, starting file deletion pass at 28-FEB-2017 15:53:53.88
%BACKUP-F-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000

What gives?

The batch job dies, the interactive one lives

The file names are identical but the file extension is different, that is about the only difference I can see
IanD
2017-02-28 05:37:12 UTC
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Could this be a bug?

I tried the same account

Submitting as batch job = fails

Executing inline the same command procedure = fail
Stephen Hoffman
2017-02-28 14:07:12 UTC
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Post by IanD
%BACKUP-I-STARTDELETE, starting file deletion pass at 28-FEB-2017 15:53:53.88
%BACKUP-F-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual
address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000
Your fossil version of OpenVMS just bit you.

Patch to current or upgrade...

Or since that's going to be unfeasible due to {provide some rationale
to justify not keeping current here} create a batch queue and/or a user
login with the recommended process quotas for BACKUP, and see if that
works.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
abrsvc
2017-02-28 14:53:29 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by IanD
%BACKUP-I-STARTDELETE, starting file deletion pass at 28-FEB-2017 15:53:53.88
%BACKUP-F-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual
address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000
Your fossil version of OpenVMS just bit you.
Patch to current or upgrade...
Or since that's going to be unfeasible due to {provide some rationale
to justify not keeping current here} create a batch queue and/or a user
login with the recommended process quotas for BACKUP, and see if that
works.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
How is the following version a "fossil" version?

From the original post: Version: V8.4-2L1

Dan
Stephen Hoffman
2017-02-28 16:33:52 UTC
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Post by abrsvc
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by IanD
%BACKUP-I-STARTDELETE, starting file deletion pass at 28-FEB-2017 15:53:53.88
%BACKUP-F-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
-SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual
address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000
Your fossil version of OpenVMS just bit you.
Patch to current or upgrade...
Or since that's going to be unfeasible due to {provide some rationale
to justify not keeping current here} create a batch queue and/or a user
login with the recommended process quotas for BACKUP, and see if that
works.
How is the following version a "fossil" version?
From the original post: Version: V8.4-2L1
My bad. Thought that was the V7.whatever discussed a while back.
Patch to current, contact VSI. BACKUP should not crash.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Robert A. Brooks
2017-02-28 17:53:20 UTC
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Version: V8.4-2L1 Facility: Backup Wanting: To produce a journal file
from a backup operation
I tried...
[...]

Please use the standard support channels to report this problem
to either HPE or VSI, depending upon who your support contract is with.

Yeah, we're looking at it already, but it helps to have a formal
report.
--
-- Rob
Simon Clubley
2017-02-28 19:10:53 UTC
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Post by Robert A. Brooks
Version: V8.4-2L1 Facility: Backup Wanting: To produce a journal file
from a backup operation
I tried...
[...]
Please use the standard support channels to report this problem
to either HPE or VSI, depending upon who your support contract is with.
And those people who are not your customers but still find sensitive
security issues[*] might want a formal _secure_ and industry standard
public mechanism for reporting them as well.
Post by Robert A. Brooks
Yeah, we're looking at it already, but it helps to have a formal
report.
And there are people out there who are not your customers but would
still like to help you out by sending you a formal report in a secure
manner if they were to ever find something.

[*] I know this isn't a critical security issue and that Ian is
probably a paying customer of yours. However, neither of those
may be true for the next issue to be discovered by someone.

Simon.

PS: I know I keep saying this. And yes, I keep saying this because
this stuff matters.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
d***@gmail.com
2017-02-28 18:28:29 UTC
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Post by IanD
Version: V8.4-2L1
Facility: Backup
Wanting: To produce a journal file from a backup operation
I tried...
$backup/journal=journal file_list/input_files saveset.bck/save
I've tried this on V8.4 Alpha and V8.4-2L1 Itanium (My V8.4-2L1 Alpha system is down at the moment) and both commands worked as expected. Both a backup saveset and a journal file were produced. Do you have a logical name JOURNAL by any chance re-directing the journal file?

Try BACKUP/JOURNAL=SYS$DISK:[]JOURNAL.BJL file_list/INPUT_FILES saveset.bck/SAVE
IanD
2017-03-02 11:43:49 UTC
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Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by IanD
Version: V8.4-2L1
Facility: Backup
Wanting: To produce a journal file from a backup operation
I tried...
$backup/journal=journal file_list/input_files saveset.bck/save
I've tried this on V8.4 Alpha and V8.4-2L1 Itanium (My V8.4-2L1 Alpha system is down at the moment) and both commands worked as expected. Both a backup saveset and a journal file were produced. Do you have a logical name JOURNAL by any chance re-directing the journal file?
Try BACKUP/JOURNAL=SYS$DISK:[]JOURNAL.BJL file_list/INPUT_FILES saveset.bck/SAVE
Sorry all - I have been busy with other stuff and have not got back to this

I'll update later with the full command a well as examples of the file(s) and their protection etc

The file names are basically repeated but the extension is different

I need to do things like double-check logicals to ensure that interactive versus batch are the same

When I was trying other things to try and work out what is happening, I believe the journal is populated late and closed last, even after the saveset is closed? (or that's how it appears to me). In this case, the backup.exe crashes straight away after the last file is put into the saveset - interesting

It's actually the first time I have used /input_files as an option, so I wss wondering how much others use them - in various places I have worked in, this is the first time I have seen them, so I posted here rather than raise a case with vsi (I'll have to look up how, I think we purchased through HPE?, sigh)

I also use a swag of other options with the backup. I'm posting from home and it's a bit of a pain connecting into work so I'll update later the options used.
d***@gmail.com
2017-03-03 16:30:31 UTC
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Post by IanD
It's actually the first time I have used /input_files as an option, so I wss wondering how much others use them - in various places I have worked in, this is the first time I have seen them, so I posted here rather than raise a case with vsi (I'll have to look up how, I think we purchased through HPE?, sigh)
If your company purchased support from HPE, you need to log the case with HPE. If you have a support contract with VSI, log a call with VSI.
Paul Sture
2017-03-04 08:23:53 UTC
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Post by IanD
Version: V8.4-2L1
Facility: Backup
Wanting: To produce a journal file from a backup operation
I tried...
$backup/journal=journal file_list/input_files saveset.bck/save
but alas, for some reason, backup doesn't want to produce a journal
file when you use the /input_files qualifier (why oh why not, since
the journal file appears to be populated when the saveset is closed
anyhow ???)
Dunno if this will help any, but I got into the habit of using CREATE
to prepare empty Backup journal files for a subsequent BACKUP command,
e.g.

$ daily_journal="daily_2017-03-04.bjl"
$ create 'daily_journal'
$ backup ... /journal-'daily_journal' ...

At some point circa VMS V6.1/6.2 the journal feature broke and
I switched to generating listing files via /LIST=

Disk space wasn't the problem it once had been, and I stuck
with the listing format from that point.

Is there a specific reason you want to use backup journal files
instead of the listing format?
--
A supercomputer is a device for turning compute-bound problems into
I/O-bound problems. ---Ken Batcher
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