Discussion:
Is HP telling it's VMS support customers about VSI ?
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Simon Clubley
2017-02-15 02:04:15 UTC
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If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been formally
notified by HP of the existence of VSI and what that means for the
future of VMS or have you had to discover this for yourself via
various third parties (such as the media and comp.os.vms) ?

Up until now, I've just assumed that HP have notified all it's VMS
customers both large and small about VSI. Given recent discussions in
comp.os.vms it's no longer clear that this is the case, so I'm just
trying to get a feeling for how many of you have been formally and
actively notified by HP about VSI.

Actively notified means something like a letter or other unsolicited
communication from HP.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
abrsvc
2017-02-15 02:17:30 UTC
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I can speak for one client anyway... HP requested a renewal for their support contract with no mention of VSI. Realize that HP still provides support for OpenVMS and won't tell existing clients to upgrade to VSI unless they (HP) can get some of the revenue somehow. This particular client was not informed by HP at all of VSI's existence. I have done that and am working on an upgrade plan for this client.

They are currently "stuck" at V7.3-2 with a little work required to get to V8.4. Planning is in place and a request for a quote has been made to VSI.

Dan
Simon Clubley
2017-02-15 02:28:51 UTC
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Post by abrsvc
I can speak for one client anyway... HP requested a renewal for
their support contract with no mention of VSI. Realize that HP still
provides support for OpenVMS and won't tell existing clients to
upgrade to VSI unless they (HP) can get some of the revenue somehow.
This particular client was not informed by HP at all of VSI's
existence. I have done that and am working on an upgrade plan for
this client.
Thanks Dan.

HP will be getting revenue because it's quite possible that some
customers will stay with HP a little longer than they were planning to
while they see how the VSI option plays out instead of moving away
from VMS immediately because they think VMS is now dead.

This should have all been sorted out when the contract between HP
and VSI was been negotiated and if VSI do indeed have access to
this information, they should have used it by now in order to
slow down the rate of porting away from VMS.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Jan-Erik Soderholm
2017-02-15 09:46:11 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been formally
notified
What is "formaly notified" today? Does anyone still uses letters
written on paper? In particular if you are working in IT?

I (or my customer) has not got any letter, but in our case
that was neither expected or really needed.
Simon Clubley
2017-02-15 13:12:42 UTC
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Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been formally
notified
What is "formaly notified" today? Does anyone still uses letters
written on paper? In particular if you are working in IT?
Formal notification via letter is still the standard in the UK, but
I don't know true that is in Sweden.

In Sweden, when a company, bank or government organisation needs to
formally notify you about something, how do they do it ?

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Jan-Erik Soderholm
2017-02-15 14:02:13 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been formally
notified
What is "formaly notified" today? Does anyone still uses letters
written on paper? In particular if you are working in IT?
Formal notification via letter is still the standard in the UK, but
I don't know true that is in Sweden.
In Sweden, when a company, bank or government organisation needs to
formally notify you about something, how do they do it ?
Simon.
I have never got a letter from my bank asking if I have seen that
there is another bank having lower interest rates and that they'd
be just happy if I moved my busines away from them.

When they are forced by legislation, or when they have benfitts of
their own from it, they might send me a letter.

For the general market around banking services, I use their
web pages and other forms of information channels.

I think that you are banging your head against a wall here... :-)
Simon Clubley
2017-02-19 23:53:03 UTC
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Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Post by Simon Clubley
Formal notification via letter is still the standard in the UK, but
I don't know true that is in Sweden.
In Sweden, when a company, bank or government organisation needs to
formally notify you about something, how do they do it ?
I have never got a letter from my bank asking if I have seen that
there is another bank having lower interest rates and that they'd
be just happy if I moved my busines away from them.
The difference here is that your existing bank hasn't decided to
discontinue a whole section of it's existing business and then to
enter into a partnership with another bank...
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
I think that you are banging your head against a wall here... :-)
Yes I agree, unfortunately.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Marc Van Dyck
2017-02-19 13:18:42 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been formally
notified by HP of the existence of VSI and what that means for the
future of VMS or have you had to discover this for yourself via
various third parties (such as the media and comp.os.vms) ?
Up until now, I've just assumed that HP have notified all it's VMS
customers both large and small about VSI. Given recent discussions in
comp.os.vms it's no longer clear that this is the case, so I'm just
trying to get a feeling for how many of you have been formally and
actively notified by HP about VSI.
Actively notified means something like a letter or other unsolicited
communication from HP.
Simon.
I have been informed about that by our local OpenVMS ambassador.
Now, we have a proactive maintenance contract, and our HP account
team knew that we were interested in buying I4 blades. That probably
helped.
--
Marc Van Dyck
Kerry Main
2017-02-19 13:44:56 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
Marc Van Dyck via Info-vax
Sent: February 19, 2017 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Is HP telling it's VMS support customers
about
VSI ?
Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been
formally
Post by Simon Clubley
notified by HP of the existence of VSI and what that means for the
future of VMS or have you had to discover this for yourself via
various third parties (such as the media and comp.os.vms) ?
Up until now, I've just assumed that HP have notified all it's VMS
customers both large and small about VSI. Given recent discussions
in
Post by Simon Clubley
comp.os.vms it's no longer clear that this is the case, so I'm just
trying to get a feeling for how many of you have been formally and
actively notified by HP about VSI.
Actively notified means something like a letter or other
unsolicited
Post by Simon Clubley
communication from HP.
Simon.
I have been informed about that by our local OpenVMS ambassador.
Now, we have a proactive maintenance contract, and our HP account
team knew that we were interested in buying I4 blades. That probably
helped.
Likely already known, but a very, very small % of OpenVMS Customers
actually participate in c.o.v., so asking survey questions like this
here will likely not create many responses.


Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Simon Clubley
2017-02-20 00:36:55 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
-----Original Message-----
Marc Van Dyck via Info-vax
Sent: February 19, 2017 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Is HP telling it's VMS support customers
about
VSI ?
I usually am. :-)
Post by Simon Clubley
Post by Simon Clubley
If you are a current HP VMS support customer, have you been
formally
Post by Simon Clubley
notified by HP of the existence of VSI and what that means for the
future of VMS or have you had to discover this for yourself via
various third parties (such as the media and comp.os.vms) ?
Up until now, I've just assumed that HP have notified all it's VMS
customers both large and small about VSI. Given recent discussions
in
Post by Simon Clubley
comp.os.vms it's no longer clear that this is the case, so I'm
just
Post by Simon Clubley
trying to get a feeling for how many of you have been formally and
actively notified by HP about VSI.
Actively notified means something like a letter or other
unsolicited
Post by Simon Clubley
communication from HP.
Simon.
I have been informed about that by our local OpenVMS ambassador.
Now, we have a proactive maintenance contract, and our HP account
team knew that we were interested in buying I4 blades. That probably
helped.
Thanks for the feedback.
Post by Simon Clubley
Likely already known, but a very, very small % of OpenVMS Customers
actually participate in c.o.v., so asking survey questions like this
here will likely not create many responses.
True, but if it's a positive response (ie: "yes, we have received
a formal letter from HP"), then you don't need many responses
to be reasonably confident that HP have actually done this for
their current support customers as a whole.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Kerry Main
2017-02-20 01:27:55 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
Simon Clubley via Info-vax
Sent: February 19, 2017 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Is HP telling it's VMS support customers
about
VSI ?
[snip..]
Post by Kerry Main
Likely already known, but a very, very small % of OpenVMS
Customers
Post by Kerry Main
actually participate in c.o.v., so asking survey questions like this
here will likely not create many responses.
True, but if it's a positive response (ie: "yes, we have received a
formal
letter from HP"), then you don't need many responses to be
reasonably confident that HP have actually done this for their
current
support customers as a whole.
Simon.
I just do not understand why you think a division in HP (or any
company for that matter) would knowingly give up its Customer revenue
to another company.

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Simon Clubley
2017-02-20 01:53:44 UTC
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Post by Kerry Main
I just do not understand why you think a division in HP (or any
company for that matter) would knowingly give up its Customer revenue
to another company.
Because VSI should have had the foresight to make this a part of the
contract negotiations in the same way as DEC sometimes handled these
matters in the old days.

And as I've already told you, that customer revenue is gone in
several years anyway and by doing this, HP may actually get _more_
revenue as customers keep their existing systems while waiting to
see how things progress at VSI instead of replacing them with
something else.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
David Froble
2017-02-20 02:58:17 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
Post by Kerry Main
I just do not understand why you think a division in HP (or any
company for that matter) would knowingly give up its Customer revenue
to another company.
I already explained this. Simon believes in the tooth fairy.

Don't you read my funny posts?
Post by Simon Clubley
Because VSI should have had the foresight to make this a part of the
contract negotiations in the same way as DEC sometimes handled these
matters in the old days.
What if they did, and were told to "pound salt"?
Post by Simon Clubley
And as I've already told you, that customer revenue is gone in
several years anyway and by doing this, HP may actually get _more_
revenue as customers keep their existing systems while waiting to
see how things progress at VSI instead of replacing them with
something else.
Simon.
Simon, you would not last 10 minutes in an organization such as HP. They'd have
you sliced and diced in no time.

I was involved in one case, way back, where a DEC salesman figured a sale lost
to another DEC salesman was the same as losing the sale to IBM. And he wasn't
very nice about it. Told outright lies about the other DEC guy. True story.
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