Discussion:
Happy DEC-20 Day!
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Rich Alderson
2016-12-20 22:10:57 UTC
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I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Rich Alderson ***@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
c***@gmail.com
2016-12-21 12:26:17 UTC
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Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.

Clair
Alan Greig
2016-12-31 00:30:11 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
10 days late for DEC-20 day but... Got a raspberry pi recently and finally got round to compiling klh10. Got Panda TOPS-20 7.1 up and running and complete with internet access too! Just for laughs I have opened up the telnet port to the outside world and am watching the bots blindly try sending root :-)

[Link from ALAN, TTY5]
$root
?Unrecognized command - Does not match switch or keyword - "root"
@bre
====


$infoRMATION (ABOUT) arpANET
Network My-Network host name is My-System
Network interface type is IPNI, Internet address is 10.0.0.51
Network interface is up, output is enabled
Network service is enabled
Last network interface up transition: 30-Dec-2016 19:07:42
$telnet smtp.gmail.com 25
Trying... Open
220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP lr10sm44217513wjb.6 - gsmtp
helo test
250 smtp.gmail.com at your service
quit
221 2.0.0 closing connection lr10sm44217513wjb.6 - gsmtp
==

$i ver
Panda Distribution, PANDA TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)-4
PANDA TOPS-20 Command processor 7.1(4453)-4
Program is TELNET, version is 7(967)

$i sys
Operator is in attendance
Remote logins allowed
Local logins allowed
Pseudo-terminal logins allowed
Internet TCP/IP terminal logins allowed
DECnet terminal logins allowed
LAT terminal logins allowed
Console terminal login allowed
Accounting is being done
Account validation is disabled
Working set preloading is enabled
Sending of system level zero messages is enabled
Sending of system level one messages is enabled
Job zero CTY output is enabled
Tape-drive allocation is disabled
Automatic file-retrieval-waits allowed
Maximum offline-expiration is 180 days
Scheduler bias-control setting is 11
Class scheduling is disabled, batch jobs being run on dregs queue
Offline structures timeout interval is 0 minutes and 5 seconds
Cluster information is enabled
Cluster sendalls are enabled
Minimum password length is disabled
Password expiration is disabled
Password dictionary is disabled
$info cluSTER
Local Cluster Node: TOPS20
$
Johnny Billquist
2016-12-31 11:27:10 UTC
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Post by Alan Greig
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
10 days late for DEC-20 day but... Got a raspberry pi recently and finally got round to compiling klh10. Got Panda TOPS-20 7.1 up and running and complete with internet access too! Just for laughs I have opened up the telnet port to the outside world and am watching the bots blindly try sending root :-)
Happy late DEC-20 to you then.

Yes, as a mad enough person to have an RSX system online with an open
telnet port, I'm getting endless amounts of entertainment from the bots
and script kiddies.

But I'm a bit surprised that you found one who actually tried entering
"root" blindly.
Most I see seem to get stuck waiting for the "Username: " prompt, which
of course RSX don't offer any more than TOPS-20 do. I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.

Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: ***@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Alan Greig
2016-12-31 19:10:22 UTC
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Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Alan Greig
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
10 days late for DEC-20 day but... Got a raspberry pi recently and finally got round to compiling klh10. Got Panda TOPS-20 7.1 up and running and complete with internet access too! Just for laughs I have opened up the telnet port to the outside world and am watching the bots blindly try sending root :-)
Happy late DEC-20 to you then.
Yes, as a mad enough person to have an RSX system online with an open
telnet port, I'm getting endless amounts of entertainment from the bots
and script kiddies.
But I'm a bit surprised that you found one who actually tried entering
"root" blindly.
Most I see seem to get stuck waiting for the "Username: " prompt, which
of course RSX don't offer any more than TOPS-20 do. I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Actually I'm seeing root sent blindly to the @ prompt quite often. Also seeing Linux shell commands and weirder shell commands embedded as if someone is trying to break out of EXEC to get shell access.

One effort however actually tried @LOGIN GUEST followed by @enable

Sadly for them the enable (capabilities) command didn't work as the guest login failed. Whether there's a bot that recognised it or a human was attracted by the bot finding something unusual I don't know but someone or something did clearly recognise the system as TOPS-20!
Johnny Billquist
2017-01-01 03:19:21 UTC
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Post by Alan Greig
Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Alan Greig
10 days late for DEC-20 day but... Got a raspberry pi recently and finally got round to compiling klh10. Got Panda TOPS-20 7.1 up and running and complete with internet access too! Just for laughs I have opened up the telnet port to the outside world and am watching the bots blindly try sending root :-)
Happy late DEC-20 to you then.
Yes, as a mad enough person to have an RSX system online with an open
telnet port, I'm getting endless amounts of entertainment from the bots
and script kiddies.
But I'm a bit surprised that you found one who actually tried entering
"root" blindly.
Most I see seem to get stuck waiting for the "Username: " prompt, which
of course RSX don't offer any more than TOPS-20 do. I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Interesting. The times I've sat and watched, they all seem to just wait
for something to happen at the ">" prompt of MCR on my system(s).
Maybe something about the telnet negotiations or the long blurb text
that gets output when they connect that confuse them then...
Post by Alan Greig
Sadly for them the enable (capabilities) command didn't work as the guest login failed. Whether there's a bot that recognised it or a human was attracted by the bot finding something unusual I don't know but someone or something did clearly recognise the system as TOPS-20!
Wow. Well, I wouldn't expect GUEST to have the WHEEL bit. But if that
was a script I'm actually impressed. And if it was a user, he was way
more knowledgeable than the average kid today.

Interesting, actually. Oh well, still lots of entertainment. :-)

Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: ***@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bob Koehler
2017-01-03 14:26:51 UTC
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Post by Johnny Billquist
I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.
I suspect most "security experts" nowdays would also be confused.
But, then, perhaps we're talking about the same people.
Johnny Billquist
2017-01-03 21:33:42 UTC
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Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Johnny Billquist
I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.
I suspect most "security experts" nowdays would also be confused.
But, then, perhaps we're talking about the same people.
:-)
We might very well be... Everyone is an "expert" these days...

Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: ***@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
David Froble
2017-01-04 01:26:53 UTC
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Post by Johnny Billquist
Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Johnny Billquist
I suspect most kids
nowadays would be very confused by the concept that you can interact
with the system in various ways without logging in, and you are not
forced to log in the first you do.
I suspect most "security experts" nowdays would also be confused.
But, then, perhaps we're talking about the same people.
:-)
We might very well be... Everyone is an "expert" these days...
Johnny
Can I be an expert ????
Alan Greig
2017-01-04 22:53:00 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
According to the listing that's you in the front row fourth from the left on the 1984 LCG photo http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/cc341/

More clearly visible in this one assuming it is actually you!

http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/1984/00000-LCG%20Group%20Photos?pic=00000012-B

More pics at first link.
c***@gmail.com
2017-01-05 11:15:51 UTC
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Post by Alan Greig
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
According to the listing that's you in the front row fourth from the left on the 1984 LCG photo http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/cc341/
More clearly visible in this one assuming it is actually you!
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/1984/00000-LCG%20Group%20Photos?pic=00000012-B
More pics at first link.
Yes, indeed. that is how we looked 30+ years ago.
Alan Greig
2017-01-07 01:47:54 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Alan Greig
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Rich Alderson
I know that there are a few folks here who have fond memories of the top of the
36-bit line. Today is for them!
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Worked on TOPS-20 for 10 years and have a picture of a DECSYSTEM 20 on the wall here in my office at VSI.
Clair
According to the listing that's you in the front row fourth from the left on the 1984 LCG photo http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/cc341/
More clearly visible in this one assuming it is actually you!
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/1984/00000-LCG%20Group%20Photos?pic=00000012-B
More pics at first link.
Yes, indeed. that is how we looked 30+ years ago.
No embarrassing photographs :-) but here's an embarrassing post of mine from almost the same time period

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/alan$20greig$20dundee$20doctor$20who%7Csort:relevance/net.sf-lovers/o-euFdD3BCo/h-La9l2MDSwJ

And yes it really was sent in 1985 from a DEC20 running TOPS-20!
Rich Alderson
2017-01-10 00:18:29 UTC
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Post by Alan Greig
And yes it really was sent in 1985 from a DEC20 running TOPS-20!
Hmm. By the date of that message, SCORE should have been announcing itself to
the world as SCORE.Stanford.Edu rather than SU-SCORE.ARPA. Certainly the mail
I received from MRC at UChicago the summer before did so. (By 1985 I was at
LOTS.)
--
Rich Alderson ***@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Alan Greig
2017-01-10 03:26:50 UTC
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Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Alan Greig
And yes it really was sent in 1985 from a DEC20 running TOPS-20!
Hmm. By the date of that message, SCORE should have been announcing itself to
the world as SCORE.Stanford.Edu rather than SU-SCORE.ARPA. Certainly the mail
I received from MRC at UChicago the summer before did so. (By 1985 I was at
LOTS.)
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
I think the Usenet routing likely rewrote the name. To be honest I have no idea why it appears to be posted from my SCORE guest account but it was about the time I was working on MM stuff for UK JANET network. The prior and subsequent messages in sf-lovers from me have my address as some variant of %***@ucl-cs.arpa which was the Dundee Tech DEC-20. The gateway at ucl-cs.arpa between JANET X25 Grey Book Mail and Internet SMTP was often down I recall so that's perhaps why I used a different posting route there as I was young and impatient :-). Mark had CCD-MRC account in Dundee at that time if I recall.
Alan Greig
2017-01-10 11:24:55 UTC
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Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Alan Greig
And yes it really was sent in 1985 from a DEC20 running TOPS-20!
Hmm. By the date of that message, SCORE should have been announcing itself to
the world as SCORE.Stanford.Edu rather than SU-SCORE.ARPA. Certainly the mail
I received from MRC at UChicago the summer before did so. (By 1985 I was at
LOTS.)
--
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
After a bit more searching...

I've done a search and here's a post of Mark's from the same time https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/net.sf-lovers/eWS3Xr24XpY/bGljZ7EeArgJ - the address is shown as @su-score.arpa . Mark sent me a cheque/check to buy the Rocky Horror Picture show in UK PAL format in 1985 and send it to him as it hadn't been released in NTSC format yet. He was probably one of the few people in the USA who could play PAL format tapes at the time!

I also see there's quite a few posts from yourself in sf-lovers back in 1985. Memories...
Michael Moroney
2017-01-04 05:35:00 UTC
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Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Lee Gleason
2017-01-04 05:41:32 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Well, the root cause is because PDP11 instructions use 3 bits for the
register specifier...

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Lee Gleason
2017-01-04 20:41:08 UTC
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Post by Lee Gleason
Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Well, the root cause is because PDP11 instructions use 3 bits for the
register specifier...
...because that's why the PDP11 documentational numeric basis is octal.

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Bob Koehler
2017-01-06 14:32:26 UTC
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Post by Lee Gleason
...because that's why the PDP11 documentational numeric basis is octal.
If you've ever toggled in an absolute loader, you'ld have found that
it's much easier to quickly flip 3 switches for each octal number
that it is to think out 4 switches for each hex number. 0-7 are
just easier to remember.
Lee Gleason
2017-01-06 22:24:08 UTC
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Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Lee Gleason
...because that's why the PDP11 documentational numeric basis is octal.
If you've ever toggled in an absolute loader, you'ld have found that
it's much easier to quickly flip 3 switches for each octal number
that it is to think out 4 switches for each hex number. 0-7 are
just easier to remember.
I've toggled in and typed in kilobytes in my day, and I soon got as used
to hex as I did octal, with a little practice.

I've actually have been doing a lot of it lately, since I'm putting together
a T-11 one board computer driving a 6522.
My EPROM programmer/editor uses hex, so I've been getting lots of practice.

But I think octal got the nod for the PDP11 display and documentation,
mainly because
grouping by three lets you see the addressing modes by inspection, rather
than having
to stop and figure it out.

In octal it's easy to see that for example, 112767 is using mode 2 with R7
(immediate) and mode 6 R7 (relative).
In hex, it's 95F7, it's not immediately apparent what's going on....back
when you’re debugging choices were
the console, ODT, or assorted buggy versions of DDT, this was pretty handy.

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Johnny Billquist
2017-01-08 08:38:09 UTC
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Post by Lee Gleason
Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Lee Gleason
...because that's why the PDP11 documentational numeric basis is octal.
If you've ever toggled in an absolute loader, you'ld have found that
it's much easier to quickly flip 3 switches for each octal number
that it is to think out 4 switches for each hex number. 0-7 are
just easier to remember.
I've toggled in and typed in kilobytes in my day, and I soon got as
used to hex as I did octal, with a little practice.
I've actually have been doing a lot of it lately, since I'm putting
together a T-11 one board computer driving a 6522.
My EPROM programmer/editor uses hex, so I've been getting lots of practice.
But I think octal got the nod for the PDP11 display and documentation,
mainly because
grouping by three lets you see the addressing modes by inspection,
rather than having
to stop and figure it out.
In octal it's easy to see that for example, 112767 is using mode 2 with
R7 (immediate) and mode 6 R7 (relative).
In hex, it's 95F7, it's not immediately apparent what's going on....back
when you’re debugging choices were
the console, ODT, or assorted buggy versions of DDT, this was pretty handy.
...and it's a MOVB... :-)

Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: ***@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Michael Moroney
2017-01-04 13:00:24 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Why? It's because to them, 31 OCT is the same thing as 25 DEC!
Bill Gunshannon
2017-01-04 13:04:17 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Why? It's because to them, 31 OCT is the same thing as 25 DEC!
Sadly, the last time I tried this on the Professors at the University
where I used to work (not that long ago!!) I had to explain it and when
you have to explain a joke it looses all its humor. :-(
(Note: these are the same people who often lamented incoming students
not understanding number basing systems.)

bill
Michael Moroney
2017-01-04 15:00:32 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Michael Moroney
Why? It's because to them, 31 OCT is the same thing as 25 DEC!
Sadly, the last time I tried this on the Professors at the University
where I used to work (not that long ago!!) I had to explain it and when
you have to explain a joke it looses all its humor. :-(
Yes, these days only a few old folks would get this.
Post by Bill Gunshannon
(Note: these are the same people who often lamented incoming students
not understanding number basing systems.)
I still remember getting a short section learning about different
numbering base systems around 8th grade, oddball bases like Base 7,
Base 3 etc. I was thinking "Interesting in theory, but since humans
everywhere have 10 fingers, everyone uses base 10, so I will NEVER
EVER use this!" I was wrong...
Rob Brown
2017-01-28 02:11:38 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Way back in 1978, a couple of months after I got my first new car,
I saw that the odometer said 7776. I thought to myself "It's
going to roll over to 10000!"

Turned out not to be the case.
Paul Sture
2017-01-29 09:53:03 UTC
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Post by Rob Brown
Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Way back in 1978, a couple of months after I got my first new car,
I saw that the odometer said 7776. I thought to myself "It's
going to roll over to 10000!"
Turned out not to be the case.
RSX utilities had 3 letter names, and the naming convention carried over
into VMS for various third party products.

Most UK car registration numbers at the time contained a 3 letter
sequence; keeping a tally of recognised utility names on a long boring
journey became something to pass the time.
--
A supercomputer is a device for turning compute-bound problems into
I/O-bound problems. ---Ken Batcher
Bob Koehler
2017-01-04 15:43:41 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Why do PDP-11 programmers always confuse Halloween with Christmas?
Because 3 toggle switches were considered easier than 4.
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