Discussion:
Fixing FTP'd install files on VMS V5.5-2H4
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David Wade
2017-03-10 18:12:20 UTC
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Folks,

I have VMS installed on a MicroVax 3100 and I have FTP'd the Fortran
install FORT066.A onto the machine. The various articles I have looked
at on the web say use the

RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM

to fix the datasets, but when I run this it complains about the

SET FILE /ATTRIBUTES

commands, and help for "set file" doesn't mention this command.

I assume this was introduced in a later version.

Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?

Dave
Steven Schweda
2017-03-10 20:25:40 UTC
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Post by David Wade
Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?
Did your Web search for the BACKUP error messages fail to
find this?:

http://antinode.info/dec/sw/fixrec.html
David Wade
2017-03-10 20:36:15 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Post by David Wade
Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?
Did your Web search for the BACKUP error messages fail to
http://antinode.info/dec/sw/fixrec.html
Thanks for responding. It did fail, or perhaps I didn't get that far.
Looks like I will need the "C" compiler though, which may give me the
same issue, so chicken and egg...

Dave
Lee Gleason
2017-03-10 21:03:25 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Post by David Wade
Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?
Did your Web search for the BACKUP error messages fail to
http://antinode.info/dec/sw/fixrec.html
Thanks for responding. It did fail, or perhaps I didn't get that far. Looks
like I will need the "C" compiler though, which may give me the same issue,
so chicken and egg...
I have a VAX MACRO program that can fix this for you - no C compiler
required. Email me and I'll reply it to you.

--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
***@comcast.net
Steven Schweda
2017-03-10 20:27:38 UTC
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Dare I ask? Why the seriously old VMS version? (Not even
V5.5-2?)
David Wade
2017-03-10 20:37:58 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Dare I ask? Why the seriously old VMS version? (Not even
V5.5-2?)
Nostalga? Its as close as I could find to the last VMS I used. It does
look as though a later version would be a better bet though...

Dave
David Froble
2017-03-10 23:59:26 UTC
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Post by David Wade
Post by Steven Schweda
Dare I ask? Why the seriously old VMS version? (Not even
V5.5-2?)
Nostalga? Its as close as I could find to the last VMS I used. It does
look as though a later version would be a better bet though...
Dave
Well, if you really want to run the old version, have at.

However, if you got an extra disk laying around, install V7.3 on it, do whatever
transfers and such you need, then mount the V5.5 disk and move the stuff to that
disk, then re-boot off the V5.5 disk.

But, keep that V7.3 disk around, you might be surprised how fast you decide to
use it.

What's your location?
David Wade
2017-03-11 00:08:56 UTC
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Post by David Froble
Post by David Wade
Post by Steven Schweda
Dare I ask? Why the seriously old VMS version? (Not even
V5.5-2?)
Nostalga? Its as close as I could find to the last VMS I used. It does
look as though a later version would be a better bet though...
Dave
Well, if you really want to run the old version, have at.
However, if you got an extra disk laying around, install V7.3 on it, do
whatever transfers and such you need, then mount the V5.5 disk and move
the stuff to that disk, then re-boot off the V5.5 disk.
But, keep that V7.3 disk around, you might be surprised how fast you
decide to use it.
there are other disks in the box. I was toying with installing 7.3 on
one of those drives...
Post by David Froble
What's your location?
I am currently in Manchester, England.

Dave
Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-10 20:40:15 UTC
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Post by David Wade
Folks,
I have VMS installed on a MicroVax 3100 and I have FTP'd the Fortran
install FORT066.A onto the machine. The various articles I have looked
at on the web say use the
RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM
to fix the datasets, but when I run this it complains about the
SET FILE /ATTRIBUTES
commands, and help for "set file" doesn't mention this command.
I assume this was introduced in a later version.
Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?
Please consider installing OpenVMS V7.3 onto that old box if there's
not much on it already, or scrounge up a couple of intermediate
versions and perform an upgrade to V7.3, as this won't be the only
similar issue you're chasing.

As for your question, please see the following discussions:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/xK2Fku4NTtY/_TSE-uyHlI8J
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/-0xDfh46J6w/cHCKiZxAw2gJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/QtSw-H8mfyg/Ofj81gtfbs8J

There are several different ways to recover these, though I'd very
strongly recommend not using zip and unzip prior to V3.0 and V6.0, and
I'd not use those tools on another platform; zip is one of the ways
commonly used to protect BACKUP savesets with the necessarily-quoted
"-V" switch on OpenVMS versions as far back as V5.5, and in any
configuration that does not have extended file specification support
available and enabled.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
David Wade
2017-03-10 20:41:03 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Post by David Wade
Is there an equivalent construct in VMS5.5?
Did your Web search for the BACKUP error messages fail to
http://antinode.info/dec/sw/fixrec.html
Thanks for responding. It did fail, or perhaps I didn't get that far.
Looks like I will need the "C" compiler though, which may give me the
same issue, so chicken and egg...

Dave



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Subject: Re:Fixing FTP'd install files on VMS V5.5-2H4


-- Pyffle HQ -=- London, England -=- http://pyffle.com
Steven Schweda
2017-03-10 21:09:24 UTC
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Looks like I will need the "C" compiler though, [...]
Look more closely? You could try one of the executables
The object and executable files named *.*_VAXC were made
under VMS V5.4, using VAX C V3.1-051.
The object and executable files named *.*_DECC were made
under VMS V5.5-2, using DEC C V4.0-000. [...]
Nostalga? [...]
For me, V5.5-2 is nostalgic enough. Newer versions have
advantages, if you want to do more than reminisce.
David Wade
2017-03-10 22:48:40 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Looks like I will need the "C" compiler though, [...]
Look more closely? You could try one of the executables
The object and executable files named *.*_VAXC were made
under VMS V5.4, using VAX C V3.1-051.
The object and executable files named *.*_DECC were made
under VMS V5.5-2, using DEC C V4.0-000. [...]
Nostalga? [...]
For me, V5.5-2 is nostalgic enough. Newer versions have
advantages, if you want to do more than reminisce.
Ok thanks for the MACRO file. The Fortran install is now working subject
to more Global Pages and Sections. Does VMS grow much bigger as the
version go up. So would V6 work OK or would it be very slow?

Dave
Steven Schweda
2017-03-10 23:20:09 UTC
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Does VMS grow much bigger as the version go up. So would V6
work OK or would it be very slow?
How many times have you seen software shrink as time
passes? Define "much". Define "very slow". (Doing what,
exactly?) How fast is this system with V5.x?

To the extent that size here refers to memory size, then
the speed you see would depend on how much memory you have.
With my weak psychic powers and a hardware description like
"MicroVax 3100", it's tough to say much of value.

Disk space might also matter, but that also depends on
your hardware. Later versions tend to occupy more disk, too.

If you're not wedded to V5.x, then I wouldn't bother with
Please consider installing OpenVMS V7.3 [...]
For more useful advice, provide more useful information.
David Wade
2017-03-11 00:06:48 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Does VMS grow much bigger as the version go up. So would V6
work OK or would it be very slow?
How many times have you seen software shrink as time
passes? Define "much". Define "very slow". (Doing what,
exactly?) How fast is this system with V5.x?
To the extent that size here refers to memory size, then
the speed you see would depend on how much memory you have.
With my weak psychic powers and a hardware description like
"MicroVax 3100", it's tough to say much of value.
Disk space might also matter, but that also depends on
your hardware. Later versions tend to occupy more disk, too.
If you're not wedded to V5.x, then I wouldn't bother with
Please consider installing OpenVMS V7.3 [...]
For more useful advice, provide more useful information.
Sorry I hadn't realized what a wide range of models there are in the
3100 range.

It is a MicroVax 3100-85

so

CPU=KA55, NVAX, 62.5 MHz (16 ns), 128 KB external cache
Show Memory reports 128Mb.
Current System Disk is RZ26 with 2050860 blocks total. but there are
several disks in the box.

It installed the Fortran Compiler slightly more slowly that the times
the install script suggests for the VAXstation 4000-60.

Dave
Steven Schweda
2017-03-11 03:13:34 UTC
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Post by David Wade
It is a MicroVax 3100-85
[...]
Show Memory reports 128Mb.
So, a pretty high-end system. I would not fear V7.3.
Post by David Wade
Current System Disk is RZ26 with 2050860 blocks total. but
there are several disks in the box.
More RZ26 disks, or what? 1GB will certainly hold the OS,
and leave some space for amusement. My VAX 4000-200 disks
tend more toward 4GB or 9GB, but my 9GB V7.3 disk is still
about 40% free, and it has plenty of stuff which could be
discarded.
David Wade
2017-03-11 10:01:09 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
Post by David Wade
It is a MicroVax 3100-85
[...]
Show Memory reports 128Mb.
So, a pretty high-end system. I would not fear V7.3.
Post by David Wade
Current System Disk is RZ26 with 2050860 blocks total. but
there are several disks in the box.
More RZ26 disks, or what? 1GB will certainly hold the OS,
and leave some space for amusement. My VAX 4000-200 disks
tend more toward 4GB or 9GB, but my 9GB V7.3 disk is still
about 40% free, and it has plenty of stuff which could be
discarded.
One RZ25 and one non-DEC SCSI disk. Not even sure which model my
VAX4000 is but I do know it has only one disk. What I really want is to
get some programs running which drive my HP and Roland Plotters so for
that the MicroVax is more usable as it has both Serial and Parallel ports.

Dave
Steven Schweda
2017-03-11 13:32:51 UTC
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[...] the MicroVax is more usable as it has both Serial and
Parallel ports.
It has a parallel port? Is that one of the exotic I/O
options, or are you looking at the 25-pin "D" connector which
is a serial port?
David Wade
2017-03-11 16:57:34 UTC
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Post by Steven Schweda
[...] the MicroVax is more usable as it has both Serial and
Parallel ports.
It has a parallel port? Is that one of the exotic I/O
options, or are you looking at the 25-pin "D" connector which
is a serial port?
Well I thought it was a parallel port..
... but on inspection its a 25 pin serial. Which is the usual way I
drive the plotters...

Dave
Scott Dorsey
2017-03-11 17:47:13 UTC
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Post by David Wade
Post by Steven Schweda
[...] the MicroVax is more usable as it has both Serial and
Parallel ports.
It has a parallel port? Is that one of the exotic I/O
options, or are you looking at the 25-pin "D" connector which
is a serial port?
Well I thought it was a parallel port..
... but on inspection its a 25 pin serial. Which is the usual way I
drive the plotters...
When those machines were new, nobody in their right mind would ever use
a DB-25 for a parallel port, because they were the standard RS-232 connector
and you risk all kinds of nastiness putting something that might be pumping
+/-15V into your parallel port.

Oh, except the IBM PC did it... and then the clones did... but you would not
see that on normal computers.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
David Wade
2017-03-11 19:38:59 UTC
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Post by Scott Dorsey
Post by David Wade
Post by Steven Schweda
[...] the MicroVax is more usable as it has both Serial and
Parallel ports.
It has a parallel port? Is that one of the exotic I/O
options, or are you looking at the 25-pin "D" connector which
is a serial port?
Well I thought it was a parallel port..
... but on inspection its a 25 pin serial. Which is the usual way I
drive the plotters...
When those machines were new, nobody in their right mind would ever use
a DB-25 for a parallel port, because they were the standard RS-232 connector
and you risk all kinds of nastiness putting something that might be pumping
+/-15V into your parallel port.
Oh, except the IBM PC did it... and then the clones did... but you would not
see that on normal computers.
Yes, I did observe some one destroy a perfectly good IBM QuietWriter
printer by using a gender changer to plug it into a serial port on an
IBM PC/XT. It took out one data bit on so it just printed garbage. IBM
said it was too expensive to repair.
Post by Scott Dorsey
--scott
Dave
Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-13 15:17:59 UTC
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If you're not wedded to V5.x, then I wouldn't bother with V6.x. As
Please consider installing OpenVMS V7.3 [...]
Dragging this fossil OpenVMS VAX version forward — upgrading OpenVMS
VAX to V7.3 — also gets support for a much wider variety of SCSI disks,
both in terms of vendors and capacities.

OpenVMS VAX V6.2 minimally gets better SCSI support, but V7.3 has the
"best" available SCSI support on that particular platform.

There's no path to go from V5.5-2 to V7.3, as an intermediate jump or
two will be required; OP will have to scrounge up an intermediate
version or two, and upgrade through that. If there's nothing
important on the box in the current OpenVMS VAX system disk — data can
be preserved and stored and accessed on other disks — then using a
scratch disk for an install or wiping the boot disk and installing V7.3
will be the easiest approach.

Replacing this configuration with emulation will be faster than this
VAX, too. Yes, VAX systems are that slow. Emulators running on
current hardware are faster than native VAX hardware.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
David Froble
2017-03-13 15:50:15 UTC
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If you're not wedded to V5.x, then I wouldn't bother with V6.x. As
Please consider installing OpenVMS V7.3 [...]
Dragging this fossil OpenVMS VAX version forward — upgrading OpenVMS VAX
to V7.3 — also gets support for a much wider variety of SCSI disks, both
in terms of vendors and capacities.
OpenVMS VAX V6.2 minimally gets better SCSI support, but V7.3 has the
"best" available SCSI support on that particular platform.
There's no path to go from V5.5-2 to V7.3, as an intermediate jump or
two will be required; OP will have to scrounge up an intermediate
version or two, and upgrade through that. If there's nothing important
on the box in the current OpenVMS VAX system disk — data can be
preserved and stored and accessed on other disks — then using a scratch
disk for an install or wiping the boot disk and installing V7.3 will be
the easiest approach.
Replacing this configuration with emulation will be faster than this
VAX, too. Yes, VAX systems are that slow. Emulators running on
current hardware are faster than native VAX hardware.
Well, yeah, but you cannot see or touch an emulator. It's nice to be able to
run your hands over that VAX, appreciating the feel of good DEC hardware ...

:-)
Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-13 16:37:02 UTC
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Post by David Froble
Well, yeah, but you cannot see or touch an emulator. It's nice to be
able to run your hands over that VAX, appreciating the feel of good DEC
hardware ...
:-)
Though DEC VAX hardware that still works and contains its magic smoke
is getting a little more rare and a little more expensive, if we're
discussing sensations.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
David Wade
2017-03-13 19:06:05 UTC
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Post by David Froble
Well, yeah, but you cannot see or touch an emulator. It's nice to be
able to run your hands over that VAX, appreciating the feel of good
DEC hardware ...
:-)
I run SIMH as well but connecting it to real plotters can be interesting.
Though DEC VAX hardware that still works and contains its magic smoke is
getting a little more rare and a little more expensive, if we're
discussing sensations.
It surprises me as well that it still works...

Dave

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