Discussion:
SCSI drive from ES45 on a PC
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Dale Dellutri
2017-05-19 17:49:50 UTC
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I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number
BF0728A4CB) that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap
BA610-6D drive cage). I'd like to use the drvie on a PC.

I have a Ultra320 Single channel PCIe SCSI Host Bus
adapter card (HP 439946-001) for the PC. I've used this
card successfully with an SDLT320 tape drive in a desktop
enclosure.

What do I order to get a desktop enclosure for the disk
drive? It doesn't need to have 6 slots. I'd be happy
with just one. But I need something that I can slide
the disk drive into.

I want a desktop enclosure that is standalone, not
something that requires a certain kind of computer.
--
Dale Dellutri <***@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)
Rich Jordan
2017-05-19 18:32:00 UTC
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Post by Dale Dellutri
I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number
BF0728A4CB) that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap
BA610-6D drive cage). I'd like to use the drvie on a PC.
I have a Ultra320 Single channel PCIe SCSI Host Bus
adapter card (HP 439946-001) for the PC. I've used this
card successfully with an SDLT320 tape drive in a desktop
enclosure.
What do I order to get a desktop enclosure for the disk
drive? It doesn't need to have 6 slots. I'd be happy
with just one. But I need something that I can slide
the disk drive into.
I want a desktop enclosure that is standalone, not
something that requires a certain kind of computer.
--
Presume that is still in the Compaq style universal drive carrier? If you dump the carrier you should have a standard 3.5" drive with SCA connector. Shop Ebay/Amazon or other vendors that might carry older tech and look for an LVD SCSI enclosure with 68 pin cable connections. The internal cable would likely be a 68 pin also so you'd need an SCA80 to 68 pin adapter. Should not be too hard to find but I expect they're not as cheap as they used to be when initially obsoleted. SCSI units always had fans but 15K drives run pretty warm so you'd want to be certain of airflow.

You could also look for an external SDLT/LTO SCSI Tape Drive enclosure with or without the drive, especially if you can find a half-height unit. Disassemble the tape drive for the fun of it and the cool 'radial engine' looking drive motor for decorative purposes. Again remove the disk drive from the carrier, and you still might need an SCA80-68 pin adapter, and then make a cover for the hole in front to guide airflow over the drive. Fan must work. You might have to drill a hole in the verticals that held the tape drive for the disk mounting screws (or not, sometimes they line up).

If you are feeling 'Maker' you could shop ebay/amazon/whatever for a Compaq internal drive cage from a server. There were both 2 and 4-high cages in different servers; make sure its LVD. They will hold your drive in the stock carrier and are all SCA, so no SCA80-68 adapters needed. They could be mounted inside a full-height external SCSI SDLT/LTO tape drive enclosure with a little mickey-mousing. The cages almost always had 68 pin connection points and male AMP power connectors on them (so the power connector and SCSI connector inside the SCSI enclosure would plug in to the cage). I did the same with a Supermicro cage years ago, installed in a (then generic and cheap) 4 drive SCSI tower. It worked with any 3.5" SCA drive with the Supermicro carriers (included), and even let me install the IBM 2.5" SCSI drives with adapters into those carriers and work in the cage. If you don't have an enclosure with a power supply a standard PC power supply should work and can be cleanly duct-taped to the back of the enclosure if it won't fit inside. I kid not. Worked for many years at home and the Supermicro drive tower still works here at work on a test system.
Stephen Hoffman
2017-05-19 19:25:33 UTC
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I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number BF0728A4CB)
that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap BA610-6D drive cage). I'd
like to use the drvie on a PC.
I have a Ultra320 Single channel PCIe SCSI Host Bus adapter card (HP
439946-001) for the PC. I've used this card successfully with an
SDLT320 tape drive in a desktop enclosure.
What do I order to get a desktop enclosure for the disk drive? It
doesn't need to have 6 slots. I'd be happy with just one. But I need
something that I can slide the disk drive into.
I want a desktop enclosure that is standalone, not something that
requires a certain kind of computer.
AFAIK, no good option exists. Last small external SCSI enclosures
I've seen were for CD drives and most of twenty years ago, too. Those
were obviously not configured for Universal drives, either.

As for an alternative approach, a 5 TB external disk with USB 3.0 costs
around US$120 on Amazon. You'll very likely spend more than that
getting any Universal HDD connected and working on an arbitrary x86
box, in parts and time and hassles. I've not encountered a small
external enclosure for the Universal disks. You're probably going to
end up building that from an existing cage, or maybe 3D printing an
enclosure. If you want to use the sled, then you're going to have to
figure out how to get power and cooling for the cage, too. Buf if
that's what you really need, here are some of the parts that can be
useful when fabricating your own...

If your PC has enough room for a cage... Some of the following MIGHT
work — the specs are a little unclear if these are all SCSI Universal
cages, but it's worth rummaging, and I've NOT confirmed that all of
these are cages for the SCSI Universal HDD series. Also wiring for the
power connection and sufficient cooling...

https://www.amazon.com/HP-ProLiant-ML310-G3-404173-001/dp/B00OGNT4H2/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1495219410


Two-slot cage part number (one 1" and one 1.6" bay): 244059-B21

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-359719-001-SCSI-6x1-Drive-Cage-with-Backplane-Proliant-ML370-/400941042112


Some doc for 359719-001 and 371722-001 :

http://images10.newegg.com/User-Manual/User_Manual_59-105-011.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Sparepart-CAGE-SCSI-SMPLX-359719-001/dp/B003D3GT24?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q


The AlphaServer DS10 series had a small front storage cage option
around that might also work here, as a starting point for constructing
your own enclosure.

The SCSI disk in the sled can be removed easily, and the connectors are
standard. Retrofitting the disk into a different box or replacing the
disk in the sled are both feasible. Getting power into the cage can
be more interesting, as the connectors likely aren't found on systems
other than ProLiant and Alpha and equivalent server hardware. You'll
likely end up cutting off and replacing the connectors. Cooling, too,
as the cages don't have fans.

Alternatively, scrounge up one of the 4300-series enclosures or
analogs, some HDD blanks for the empty bays, and use that. These are
unfortunately also big, ugly and loud. But that's the least-hassle
approach, if you don't want to build and power and cool a cage in a
scrounged or 3D printed enclosure.

https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04283713.pdf

TL;DR: AFAIK, no good options exist for getting Universal sleds
connected to arbitrary x86 boxes whether internal or external.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
David Froble
2017-05-19 21:00:08 UTC
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Post by Dale Dellutri
I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number
BF0728A4CB) that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap
BA610-6D drive cage). I'd like to use the drvie on a PC.
First question I'd ask is "why?"

Don't be so fixated on one task such that you spend more then a perhaps better
alternative.

You can get a small SSD ( < 100 GB ) for less than $100. If you have a PC with
SATA, it just plugs in.

As others mentioned, taking the drive out of the caddy offers more options.
Steven Schweda
2017-05-19 21:55:46 UTC
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Most of my external SCA SCSI disks are in Sun 611 boxes.
At least some of then say "UltraSCSI" on the front, but I
wouldn't guarantee 320 of anything. Different sub-models
have different internal stuff (SCA connector, 68-pin cable,
50-pin cable, ...), so a little care in shopping can be
helpful.

On my Dell Precision 490 with some kind of LSI Logic card
and some Seagate ST373307LC drives, at power up, the BIOSy
stuff says that the internal drives do "320", but the
external drive (whose box does say "UltraSCSI") apparently
negotiated down to "40". Could be related to the (Sun)
cable, or the built-into-the-box auto-termination, or some
other thing.

After many years, the "rubber" (polyurethane?) feet tend
to turn to goo (de-polymerized polyurethane, i.e. urethane?),
but otherwise they seem to last.
You can get a small SSD [...]
Perhaps he wants to run some open-source software. Does
"sed" even work with a non-SCSI disk drive?
Baldrick
2017-05-23 17:17:53 UTC
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Post by Dale Dellutri
I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number
BF0728A4CB) that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap
BA610-6D drive cage). I'd like to use the drvie on a PC.
...
Post by Dale Dellutri
I want a desktop enclosure that is standalone, not
something that requires a certain kind of computer.
I have SUCCESSFULLY used the "WHITE" StorageWorks shelves
with drives on PC's uSCSI, they were the old NT ones, and
not compatible with the beige or blue shelves with VMS.

I don't immediately have the model numbers at hand but you'll
probably be faced with swapping a drive in a WHITE SSB with
the one you want, and swapping drives is a bit of an art!

OK why did I attach a shelf to my Wintel box? Well I decided
to set up a stripe for audio work but its performance wasn't
as good as I expected but an interesting experiment. I was
given it along with a pile of DEC kit and knew it was no
good for the VMS kit. Use computer management to format
the drive(s) for use.

Baldrick.
Hans Vlems
2017-05-23 21:03:52 UTC
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Hmm, I mix white enclosure disks with blue bricks in white and blue enclosures. No problems. Even when connected to a SCSI controller in a pc.
I've white enclosures on blue alphas and vice versa.
Again no issues.

That said, connecting SCSI devices to modern pc's is throwing money away. Mains power is expensive. Besides SATA or SAS disks are inexpensive to operate.

Hans
Stephen Hoffman
2017-05-24 16:55:19 UTC
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I have SUCCESSFULLY used the "WHITE" StorageWorks shelves with drives
on PC's uSCSI, they were the old NT ones, and not compatible with the
beige or blue shelves with VMS. ... I was given it along with a pile
of DEC kit and knew it was no good for the VMS kit.
The white generic-branded StorageWorks SCSI disk drive bricks should
work fine on OpenVMS starting ~V6.2, and all of the StorageWorks drives
will work fine elsewhere, assuming compatible SCSI hardware and the
appropriate sacrifices of rubber chickens to your SCSI bus. Well,
except for the green bricks, but who knows what bus gremlins might be
installed in those bricks. Any SCSI disks lacking WRITE LONG support
will get kicked out of HBVS sets on disk errors, too. FWIW.

Biggest issue is usually the usual
wide-versus-narrow-versus-SE-versus-differential with the occasional
HVD and wide-hostile widgets tossed into the mix see who is paying
attention to the cryptic SCSI iconography — the aforementioned
compatible SCSI hardware — for what HDD works with what controller.

Using a modern USB 2 or USB 3 or whatever-bus-via-USB-C is usually
preferable to dredging up StorageWorks SCSI widgets, though. And a
whole lot more storage. Quite possibly faster too, depending on...

I really don't miss those days. Kinda like the Q-bus. It was nice
when it was new, but we've learned a few things since then.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
David Turner
2017-05-24 18:59:22 UTC
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You'll need

1)) Tabletop scsi enclosure
2) SSI LVD Terminator
3) EXternal SCSI Cable
4) SCA to HD68 converter


If you want to order, call me 912 786 8501
David
Island Computers
Post by Dale Dellutri
I have an Ultra320 15Krpm 72.8GB drive (HP model number
BF0728A4CB) that I took out of an ES45 (from a hot-swap
BA610-6D drive cage). I'd like to use the drvie on a PC.
I have a Ultra320 Single channel PCIe SCSI Host Bus
adapter card (HP 439946-001) for the PC. I've used this
card successfully with an SDLT320 tape drive in a desktop
enclosure.
What do I order to get a desktop enclosure for the disk
drive? It doesn't need to have 6 slots. I'd be happy
with just one. But I need something that I can slide
the disk drive into.
I want a desktop enclosure that is standalone, not
something that requires a certain kind of computer.
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