Discussion:
Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix Outdated U.S. Computers
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u***@gmail.com
2017-04-11 22:00:51 UTC
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I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.

WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
u***@gmail.com
2017-04-12 12:02:28 UTC
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Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
Kerry Main
2017-04-12 12:46:52 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
ultradwc--- via Info-vax
Sent: April 12, 2017 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix
Outdated
U.S. Computers
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would
save them
Post by u***@gmail.com
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-
ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
Like most mainframe migration failures, all to often the focus is on the
HW replacement and not on trying to untangle 40 years of heavily
customized SW business logic which, all to often, is poorly documented.

While mainframe HW support costs are not cheap, the OS and application
SW management/support costs are usually where the big $'s are spent
every year.

Imho, an approach similar to what VSI is doing i.e.
translation/emulation at the OS layer (Alpha-X86/64, later IA64-X86/64)
is the way of the future to get old SW apps running on new HW.

That was also the Apple strategy when they changed platforms to X86 i.e.
their Rosetta strategy.

Reference: (IBM bought Transitive almost 10 years ago - the company that
developed Rosetta for Apple)
<https://www.gartner.com/doc/815215/transitive-buy-boost-ibm-crossplatfo
rm>

Emulation/translation - a murky business from IBM:
<http://www.tech-news.com/another/ap200704b.html>

Btw, IBM is not without its own issues in the legacy platform upgrade
and integration world: (Mar 10, 2017)
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/10/pennsylvania_says_ibm_is_blowi
ng_110m_contract_to_upgrade_it_system/>
"Pennsylvania sues IBM for fraud over $170m IT upgrade shambles"


Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-12 15:09:47 UTC
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Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
“We have a computer system in this country that’s 40 years old,”
Trump said.

I didn't realize we only had one. :-)

All those in favor of dumping MS and going entirely Open Source
raise your hand.

bill
Arne Vajhøj
2017-04-12 23:55:01 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
“We have a computer system in this country that’s 40 years old,”
Trump said.
I didn't realize we only had one. :-)
All those in favor of dumping MS and going entirely Open Source
raise your hand.
I doubt that it is the Windows systems that are the most outdated.

Arne
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-13 01:37:26 UTC
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Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
“We have a computer system in this country that’s 40 years old,”
Trump said.
I didn't realize we only had one. :-)
All those in favor of dumping MS and going entirely Open Source
raise your hand.
I doubt that it is the Windows systems that are the most outdated.
Arne
You'd be surprised. But I figure as long as we're fixing, let's
fix the stuff that is the most broken.

bill
David Froble
2017-04-13 01:34:35 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
“We have a computer system in this country that’s 40 years old,”
Trump said.
Well how about that? Time tested and proven. Can't get much better than that,
right?

Actually, I sort of doubt 40 year old HW. Software and applications, most
likely, and if they do the job, why not?
Jan-Erik Soderholm
2017-04-12 15:19:25 UTC
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Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...

How many of them are already running VMS today?
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-12 17:30:35 UTC
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Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Post by u***@gmail.com
Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/04/11/trump-looks-to-ibm-and-others-to-help-fix-outdated-u-s-computers.html
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere. Standards for IS approval (at
least within DOD) come from DISA. Approval of a system not on their
list takes an act of god and a whole bunch of extra work. (and we all
know how likely a government employee is to do more than the bare
minimum required to collect their paycheck). I mentioned here back in
2009 when I was working at the branch of DISA responsible for these
standards that an attempt to get the STIG and Security Checklist for
VMS updated was met with total lack of interest.

bill
Bob Koehler
2017-04-12 18:38:51 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5. But others
can't run 5.5.
Jan-Erik Soderholm
2017-04-12 21:27:21 UTC
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Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5.
But others can't run 5.5.
Because?
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-12 22:56:16 UTC
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Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5. But others
can't run 5.5.
Probably NASA. Are they still running those PDP-11's they were looking
not all that long ago?

bill
Bob Koehler
2017-04-13 14:05:38 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Probably NASA. Are they still running those PDP-11's they were looking
not all that long ago?
Don't know where all the PDP-11s were. Last on I saw was an 11/70 I
helped get rid of. I'd be very surprized if there aren't some left,
considering what I know of what they were used for.
David Turner
2017-04-14 21:49:31 UTC
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ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Probably NASA. Are they still running those PDP-11's they were looking
not all that long ago?
Don't know where all the PDP-11s were. Last on I saw was an 11/70 I
helped get rid of. I'd be very surprized if there aren't some left,
considering what I know of what they were used for.
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-15 14:16:59 UTC
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Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".


bill
Kerry Main
2017-04-15 16:12:41 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
Gunshannon via Info-vax
Sent: April 15, 2017 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix Outdated
U.S. Computers
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using
OpenVMS
Post by David Turner
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
bill
Or... from your perspective, there are no OpenVMS systems in DOD because you sent an internal email asking Admins to respond and no one responded.

😊


Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-15 17:38:01 UTC
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Post by Kerry Main
-----Original Message-----
Gunshannon via Info-vax
Sent: April 15, 2017 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix Outdated
U.S. Computers
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using
OpenVMS
Post by David Turner
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
bill
Or... from your perspective, there are no OpenVMS systems in DOD because you sent an internal email asking Admins to respond and no one responded.
No, you misunderstand. I didn't "send an email". I walked over to the
desk of the guy responsible for it and talked with him directly as we
were in the same office and working for the same department. Trust me,
they responded. No interest in updating anything related to VMS.

bill
Kerry Main
2017-04-15 16:46:06 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
Sent: April 15, 2017 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix Outdated
U.S. Computers
-----Original Message-----
Gunshannon via Info-vax
Sent: April 15, 2017 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix
Outdated
U.S. Computers
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using
OpenVMS
Post by David Turner
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
bill
Or... from your perspective, there are no OpenVMS systems in DOD
because you sent an internal email asking Admins to respond and no one
responded.
No longer available, but job search turned up the following: Looks recent.. Sure sounds like DoD to me. Mixed OS SysAdmin.
<https://clearedjobs.net/job/senior-systems-administrator-san-diego-california-204968>

"Leidos’s Federal Health Operation currently has an opening for a Senior Systems Administrator in San Diego, CA.

The Senior Systems Administrator for a complex Open VMS systems on the DoD .mil network. The system consists of Open VMS with a mix of VMWare ESXi hosts and Windows 2008 virtual machines (VMs). Must have expert-level hands-on experience implementing, configuring, and managing Open VMS with version 7.4 and above. The Sr. SA will serve as the system architect, with responsibility for designing the open VMS supporting other operating systems on the same storage systems also ensure it meets customer performance, availability, and scalability requirements; documenting the architecture design; and developing implementation plans and creating as built report. Implementation responsibilities include managing and overseeing the build-out of the Open VMS and VMWare systems, testing to ensure all customer requirements are met, and transitioning the systems into production. "

- Provide support of OpenVMS clustering, both local and wide-area.

- Provide support of disk subsystem volume shadowing/mirroring and backup/restore Procedures.

- Provide support of OpenVMS security management.

- Participate in the development of new systems architectures.

- Install, configure, test, implement, trouble-shoot and upgrade OpenVMS systems-related hardware, e.g., CPUs, disk subsystems, terminal servers, network-related equipment, printer and terminals.

- Collaborate with the Department’s Applications Development, PC Operations and Network Support Units in matters related to the OpenVMS platforms.
[end quote]

And another - April 2017: Multi-Platform Security Engineer
<https://lautanjobs.com/information-security-engineer-jobs-leidos.13603888e028e14b>

"The Information Security Engineer, under direction of the Security Manager, supports the validation of results from ACAS scans at the sites and then managing the finding remediation process. Other duties may include supporting site ACAS scans and installing and managing site patch groups and certification and accreditation (C&A) for the Interim/Final Authority to Operate (IATO/ATO) for DOD Military Healthcare System. Follows the DoD Information Assurance Certification and Accreditation Process (DIACAP) and NIST Risk Management Framework (RMF) directive and procedures to research, analyze and document the MHS system architecture. "

"Protocols and Services List, and System IA Policies and Procedures. Evaluates security features of new hardware, software, configuration changes and operating procedures for compliance with DoD MHS security requirements, vulnerabilities and proposed solutions/countermeasures. Installs and configures security scanning tools and reporting systems. Performs system administration functions to include, but not limited to, documenting the security architecture. Performs functions as required in support of the DIACAP, NIST, HIPAA and other MHS IA supporting documentation.

Experience with security features of OpenVMS, Windows, Oracle, JAVA and UNIX environments.

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-15 17:35:47 UTC
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Post by Kerry Main
-----Original Message-----
Sent: April 15, 2017 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix Outdated
U.S. Computers
-----Original Message-----
Gunshannon via Info-vax
Sent: April 15, 2017 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Trump Looks to IBM, Others to Help Fix
Outdated
U.S. Computers
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using
OpenVMS
Post by David Turner
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
bill
Or... from your perspective, there are no OpenVMS systems in DOD
because you sent an internal email asking Admins to respond and no one
responded.
No longer available, but job search turned up the following: Looks recent.. Sure sounds like DoD to me. Mixed OS SysAdmin.
<https://clearedjobs.net/job/senior-systems-administrator-san-diego-california-204968>
"Leidos’s Federal Health Operation currently has an opening for a Senior Systems Administrator in San Diego, CA.
The Senior Systems Administrator for a complex Open VMS systems on the DoD .mil network. The system consists of Open VMS with a mix of VMWare ESXi hosts and Windows 2008 virtual machines (VMs). Must have expert-level hands-on experience implementing, configuring, and managing Open VMS with version 7.4 and above. The Sr. SA will serve as the system architect, with responsibility for designing the open VMS supporting other operating systems on the same storage systems also ensure it meets customer performance, availability, and scalability requirements; documenting the architecture design; and developing implementation plans and creating as built report. Implementation responsibilities include managing and overseeing the build-out of the Open VMS and VMWare systems, testing to ensure all customer requirements are met, and transitioning the systems into production. "
- Provide support of OpenVMS clustering, both local and wide-area.
- Provide support of disk subsystem volume shadowing/mirroring and backup/restore Procedures.
- Provide support of OpenVMS security management.
- Participate in the development of new systems architectures.
- Install, configure, test, implement, trouble-shoot and upgrade OpenVMS systems-related hardware, e.g., CPUs, disk subsystems, terminal servers, network-related equipment, printer and terminals.
- Collaborate with the Department’s Applications Development, PC Operations and Network Support Units in matters related to the OpenVMS platforms.
[end quote]
And another - April 2017: Multi-Platform Security Engineer
<https://lautanjobs.com/information-security-engineer-jobs-leidos.13603888e028e14b>
"The Information Security Engineer, under direction of the Security Manager, supports the validation of results from ACAS scans at the sites and then managing the finding remediation process. Other duties may include supporting site ACAS scans and installing and managing site patch groups and certification and accreditation (C&A) for the Interim/Final Authority to Operate (IATO/ATO) for DOD Military Healthcare System. Follows the DoD Information Assurance Certification and Accreditation Process (DIACAP) and NIST Risk Management Framework (RMF) directive and procedures to research, analyze and document the MHS system architecture. "
"Protocols and Services List, and System IA Policies and Procedures. Evaluates security features of new hardware, software, configuration changes and operating procedures for compliance with DoD MHS security requirements, vulnerabilities and proposed solutions/countermeasures. Installs and configures security scanning tools and reporting systems. Performs system administration functions to include, but not limited to, documenting the security architecture. Performs functions as required in support of the DIACAP, NIST, HIPAA and other MHS IA supporting documentation.
Experience with security features of OpenVMS, Windows, Oracle, JAVA and UNIX environments.
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Leidos is a contractor, may work for the government but isn't the
same thing (or bound by the same rules) as a government shop. Curious
what it is they do, however as the DOD Medical System is run by General
Dynamics and is IBM Mainframe based. (And written in COBOL!! :-)

Maybe this explains all the secret government VMS systems. They are all
owned and run by contractors, not the government themselves. Could be
done if the contract was "provide service" contract rather than a "sell
hardware" contract.

bill
Bob Koehler
2017-04-17 12:59:03 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Maybe this explains all the secret government VMS systems. They are all
owned and run by contractors, not the government themselves. Could be
done if the contract was "provide service" contract rather than a "sell
hardware" contract.
In all the years I've worked on government systems, only 12 were
owned by the contractor. And none of those is still in service,
nor were any of them used on a US government contract.
Paul Sture
2017-04-15 17:23:15 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
How does that one work once you are retired?

:-)
--
The First of April: The only day of the year that people critically
evaluate news stories before believing them.
Bill Gunshannon
2017-04-15 17:42:30 UTC
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Post by Paul Sture
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
How does that one work once you are retired?
:-)
I don't know. I worked on classified VAX systems in the basement of
the Pentagon back in 86 and there was certainly no requirement that
I not tell anyone what I was doing. Installing Excellan Ethernet cards
and software for tempest fiber network between there and DTSI over on
Army/Navy Blvd across the parking lot. Nothing secret about the
installation, just the data they processed on it. And I never saw any
of that we did our work at night when all the hard disks were locked in
the safe. :-)

bill
Paul Sture
2017-04-15 22:47:28 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Paul Sture
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
How does that one work once you are retired?
:-)
I don't know. I worked on classified VAX systems in the basement of
the Pentagon back in 86 and there was certainly no requirement that
I not tell anyone what I was doing. Installing Excellan Ethernet cards
and software for tempest fiber network between there and DTSI over on
Army/Navy Blvd across the parking lot. Nothing secret about the
installation, just the data they processed on it.
Aye, I have worked under pretty some strict NDAs, with access to
confidential data and what could be termed as trade secrets (competitive
advantage stuff), but there's a lot of stuff that half the town knows
anyway.

Having said that, I stumbled across something last year which made me
conscious that my own parents might not have been entirely discreet
about work related stuff I discussed with them more than 30 years ago.
Not a pleasant feeling, I can tell you.
Post by Bill Gunshannon
And I never saw any of that we did our work at night when all the
hard disks were locked in the safe. :-)
You only need to hear one tale of a hardware engineer overwriting a
customer data disk to convince you that's a good policy, even where
the data isn't confidential :-)
--
The First of April: The only day of the year that people critically
evaluate news stories before believing them.
Arne Vajhøj
2017-04-15 17:50:51 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
I don't think anyone is doubting that DoD has VMS servers sitting somewhere.

DoD must have hundreds of thousands of servers.

It would be extremely unlikely that none of these were
running VMS.

But we need to be careful about what we are talking about.

Let us pick some random numbers and say that DoD got 500000 servers
and 500 run VMS.

We can say that DoD has VMS servers.

David can be having a very nice business supplying HW for those
500 servers.

But a 0.1% share of DoD servers still make VMS an extremely
rare thing in DoD. And not a priority in any way for DoD.

But we don't have the numbers. What the heck maybe DoD themselves
does not even have the numbers.

Arne
David Froble
2017-04-15 21:53:32 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
bill
When a vendor is working with such people, and wants to continue to do so,
perhaps protecting the customer's information may be a good idea.

Not saying I agree, but some people can be rather funny about such things.

David has a business to run. He's allowed to run it in the manner he sees fit.
Simon Clubley
2017-04-18 17:37:20 UTC
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Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by David Turner
ican tell you definitively that many parts of the DOD are using OpenVMS
on Integrity. That is all I can say about that
And here we go again. "I know, but if I tell you I have to kill you".
No, it's called customer confidentiality and is an absolutely standard
(and expected) thing. I would be more surprised if David had revealed
exactly who the customers within the DoD are.

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Michael Moroney
2017-04-13 01:57:14 UTC
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Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5. But others
can't run 5.5.
I had to help out quickly with a problem on a V6.2 VAX system, related to
some form of government work, just yesterday.

Also, there was a news story about a year ago how the military still uses
floppy disks for something related to nuclear weapons.

No, not the 3 1/2" floppies of the 90s.
Not the earlier 5 1/4" ones, either.
The 8" floppies, with all of about 230 kilobytes of storage.
(the story didn't mention what kind(s) of computer used them)
Jan-Erik Soderholm
2017-04-13 08:56:05 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5. But others
can't run 5.5.
I had to help out quickly with a problem on a V6.2 VAX system, related to
some form of government work, just yesterday.
Also, there was a news story about a year ago how the military still uses
floppy disks for something related to nuclear weapons.
No, not the 3 1/2" floppies of the 90s.
Not the earlier 5 1/4" ones, either.
The 8" floppies, with all of about 230 kilobytes of storage.
(the story didn't mention what kind(s) of computer used them)
NASA are active on the Rdblist mail list. And that is not
using old equipment.
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2017-04-13 09:22:31 UTC
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Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
NASA are active on the Rdblist mail list. And that is not
using old equipment.
NASA is a big place. I'm sure they have many computers of various ages.

The original Space Shuttle had core memory.
Bob Koehler
2017-04-13 14:10:24 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
NASA are active on the Rdblist mail list. And that is not
using old equipment.
NASA is a big place. I'm sure they have many computers of various ages.
The original Space Shuttle had core memory.
I've seen old VAXen in other government facilities fairly recently.
I can't swear they're still there, but it's likely.

Anybody remember the orange VAXen?
abrsvc
2017-04-13 14:39:38 UTC
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There are still many VAX machines used by the government. I taught "new" students recently the basics of OpenVMS. The machines in question were running anywhere from V5.5-2 up to V7.

Even outside of the government, there are still many systems running V5.5-2 as well as variants of V6.

Dan
IanD
2017-04-15 00:59:43 UTC
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Post by abrsvc
There are still many VAX machines used by the government. I taught "new" students recently the basics of OpenVMS. The machines in question were running anywhere from V5.5-2 up to V7.
Even outside of the government, there are still many systems running V5.5-2 as well as variants of V6.
Dan
I have done some work recently with folks who are the license distributors for Charon in my region

They do quite a bit of work for military / government who are still running Vax's

Some systems are part of simulators who cannot be easily swapped out due to the incredible testing costs involved. One such system provided little more than a regular signal of specific data at certain times. Emulating it was easy (although they did have to slow the emulator down!) but testing a replacement system was not simple and involved lots of other components sand therefore costs
Jay E. Morris
2017-04-13 16:31:23 UTC
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Post by Michael Moroney
Post by Bob Koehler
Post by Bill Gunshannon
Post by Jan-Erik Soderholm
Regarding "outdated-u-s-computers"...
How many of them are already running VMS today?
That would be none. Except maybe some old system running 5.5 in
some obscure basement somewhere.
I know where some are. I could put my hands on them after about an
hour's drive. And yes, a few of them are running 5.5. But others
can't run 5.5.
I had to help out quickly with a problem on a V6.2 VAX system, related to
some form of government work, just yesterday.
Also, there was a news story about a year ago how the military still uses
floppy disks for something related to nuclear weapons.
No, not the 3 1/2" floppies of the 90s.
Not the earlier 5 1/4" ones, either.
The 8" floppies, with all of about 230 kilobytes of storage.
(the story didn't mention what kind(s) of computer used them)
Way back, but around 1990 or so at Cape Canaveral Air Station we moved
from the old Range Control Center and Central Computer Complex into the
brand spanking new Range Operations Control Center, running all on
Alphaservers. Well, except for the one system the Navy was insisting
that we bring. IIRC it had something to do with Trident missile
testing. An old IBM. Using paper tape. Air Force said, not in my
building. They actually upgraded.

We did not bring the CDC computers with the refrigerator sized 1meg
memory units or the weirdest off-line tape storage system I'd ever seen.
Wound onto what looked like 120 film spools.
Bob Koehler
2017-04-12 18:34:18 UTC
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Post by u***@gmail.com
I hope you guys call him right away and set up an appointment touting
OpenVMS as the ultimate security platform for the government, and
telling him about the upcoming OpenVMS port to x86 which would save them
billions of dollars over IBM junk hardware.
WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OPENVMS. Call them.
They'll have to spend some money saying so on Fox News Channel
commercials, or he'll never believe it.
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