-----Original Message-----
via Info-vax
Sent: April 14, 2017 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Java 8 Now Available for OpenVMS Integrity
Post by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyPost by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyBut it can also work the other way if this is still the current Java 8
version on VMS 6 months from now.
VSI is a small company, with a huge amount of work to accomplish.
Not sure if
Post by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyPost by David FrobleHPE was involved in the Java 8 stuff. Regardless, haven't you
been
pounding
Post by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyPost by David Froblejust a bit too hard on "I want everything, right now, or even
yesterday"?
Post by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyPost by David FrobleIt seems that for some people, no matter what does get released,
they might as
???????????????
Post by David FroblePost by Simon ClubleyBecause it's a very nice stepping stone towards where VMS should
be,
Post by David FroblePost by Simon Clubleybut that's all it is: a stepping stone. We now need all the other
stepping stones to be laid down.
Simon.
Rome wasn't built in a day. At least VSI is trying, and I for one
am glad
they
Post by David Frobleare doing so. Being a realist, I'm going to congratulate them for
what
they do,
Post by David Froblenot hammer them for what they didn't do. YMMV ....
I didn't see his post that way
I saw the point that if you neglect fundamentals like keeping open
source software up to date, it negatively impacts on you and your
credibility wanes
VMS is not seen as relevant in todays market - that is the harsh reality
Depends on the market, but no one will argue it needs to expand.
To restore VMS to even a state where it can compete in a platform for
open source development yet alone deployment, a sh*t load of work is
needed and continually needed
Agree, but so does VSI as shown in their roadmaps.
The unspoken question that needs to be asked is what tools and
frameworks are being put in place to help foster VMS be relevant into
the current world, yet alone in 5 years time
What frameworks are being implemented, what is happening to assist
VMS builds of open source get out the door quicker?
It not enough to build the odd occasional release of an open source
product now and then, it needs to be a fluid happening.
Jenkins grew out of a need in the open source world for people to be
able to get quick access to current builds versus roll your own all
the
time. Repeatable processes is the name of game - where is this for
VMS?
Everything is still in the roll your own mentality or waiting with cup
in
hand for VSI (who by your own admission are a small company and
cannot do everything)
Jenkins and OpenVMS:
<https://www.slideshare.net/ecubemarketing/why-nxtware-remote-for-jenkin
s>
"Learn how NXTware Remote brings Continuous Integration and Build
Automation to OpenVMS"
If they cannot do everything (and they can't and shouldn't) then they
need to put in frameworks and/or processes that assist the greater
community in getting builds out as fast as possible to keep the
platform
relevant
Point in question. We heard how the original VMS code cannot be open
sourced due to license agreements. What about all the work done with
LLVM for VMS? What about the work done for booting? What about the
code that was re-written in C or adapted for x86 specific?
Surely not all of this code (that I read was developed from scratch
some
of it) is tied to HPE licensing? What about this code being released
to the
wider audience so that VSI can attract a larger audience?
You assume Open Source would be a good thing.
There are pro's and con's, and this argument has been going on for
decades.
However, many Cust's want one throat to choke when it comes to support
agreements in mission critical environments.
Some Customers do not want their senior IT folks in the mud dealing with
OS level patches and/or troubleshooting. They prefer to leave that low
level activity to vendors and instead have their senior IT folks spend
more time working with business groups helping them adopt new
technologies and application integration that can be used to improve the
companies competitiveness.
At some point in the future, I would like to see a "right sourcing"
model adopted which provides partners the ability to submit certain TBD
code as part of an official VSI release cycle, but that's another
discussion. A good example is the LD driver which is now part of the
official VSI release cycle.
Even the MS devil has open sourced key components, like .net,
powershell. It also has opened up it's vidual studio to intergrade
with the
likes of GitHub and recently announced it was closing it's code
repository
and acknowledged that GitHub rules them all at present. Linux won,
open source has won, VMS needs to get on the bandwagon and
incorporate as many of the winning components these two used to gain
success or perish (putting it more hard, rise from the dead)
Check out the roadmap. Many of these are in the plans, but one needs to
remember that Rome was not built in a day. Check out slide 6 for the
Open Source update.
<http://www.vmssoftware.com/pdfs/VSI_Roadmap_20170306.pdf>
Note - While GitHub's heavily distributed network based model is popular
now, the world is rapidly moving to IT models which re-evaluate what is
better done centralized vs. what is done distributed.
Data Centers are being massively consolidated, new high end storage
solutions (60TB Seagate SSD drives announced, 10TB drives are available
today for less than USD $500), very high speed, ultra low latency
interconnects, NV memory in TB range, centralized hyper-converged
virtualization strategies and much improved security models etc. are all
going to place pressures on the legacy distributed network models.
I really don't think anyone was discrediting the great work VSI has
put in,
it's just some folk realise the greater picture and what's needed to
continue moving VMS forward because let's face it, we are many years
behind currently
You are under estimating VSI.
As the roadmap shows, there is lots to do, but as Clair and others have
stated many times, VSI is a small company who needs to balance keeping
current Cust's happy (revenue coming in), vs. allocating resources on
new features development.
A good example is the recent Alpha support work. It likely has slowed
down and/or impacted the X86-64 work somewhat, but at the same time,
made many Alpha Customers very happy that they are getting the features
and enhancements in V8.4-2L1. That means more support agreement revenue
for VSI in the short term.
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com