Oracle auditing Java users in 2017

Post by Simon Clubley
According to The Register, Oracle are going to start auditing Java
usage in 2017 with the aim of making you pay for what they consider
to be non-free use.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/
If you or your company use Java, I recommend reading the whole article.

The point is very relevant, but it is not a very good article.

Embedded.

Java ME & Java SE Embedded for thingies has as far as I know never
been free of charge. Nokia etc. paid SUN for Java ME back when a
Nokia 3XXX was the phone.

Nobody should be surprised of that.

If they don't want to pay then they can go for Android.

SE is different.

First people need to realize that Java SE is a standard not a product.
There are multiple products that implement the Java standard SE.

OpenJDK is open source and free both as in free speech and as in free beer.

Oracle Java is not open source. So not free speech. And may or may not
be free of charge aka free beer.

You can not download it without accepting Oracle's license.

Any business using Java should have studied those license
conditions before downloading and using.

Using an Oracle product without having read the license
seems extremely careless to me!!

The suggestion to remove certain parts of the Oracle Java distribution
is very dangerous as the Java license actually specified what can
be removed and what can not. Removing something that can not be
removed per license will void the license.

Other Java implementations like IBM and HP are governed by their
licenses.

Which again people should read!

Arne

David Froble

2016-12-18 01:32:55 UTC

The point is very relevant, but it is not a very good article.
Embedded.
Java ME & Java SE Embedded for thingies has as far as I know never
been free of charge. Nokia etc. paid SUN for Java ME back when a
Nokia 3XXX was the phone.
Nobody should be surprised of that.
If they don't want to pay then they can go for Android.
SE is different.
First people need to realize that Java SE is a standard not a product.
There are multiple products that implement the Java standard SE.
OpenJDK is open source and free both as in free speech and as in free beer.
Oracle Java is not open source. So not free speech. And may or may not
be free of charge aka free beer.
You can not download it without accepting Oracle's license.
Any business using Java should have studied those license
conditions before downloading and using.
Using an Oracle product without having read the license
seems extremely careless to me!!
The suggestion to remove certain parts of the Oracle Java distribution
is very dangerous as the Java license actually specified what can
be removed and what can not. Removing something that can not be
removed per license will void the license.
Other Java implementations like IBM and HP are governed by their
licenses.
Which again people should read!
Arne

Perhaps people should be a bit more cautious in selecting and using something
that was designed from the beginning to be "the Borg", to dominate the market.
Unless there is clear language in such licenses to prohibit such, then sooner or
later, someone will attempt to "use" the product to reach into your wallets.

Even if an old version cannot be used in such a manner, new versions can be more
restrictive, and if you're already into the technology, it's harder to get away
from it. For example, stuff that worked on Weendoze XP, and won't work on
weendoze 10, and you're now running weendoze 10 and need the newer versions.

Arne Vajhøj

2016-12-18 02:26:07 UTC

Post by David Froble

The point is very relevant, but it is not a very good article.
Embedded.
Java ME & Java SE Embedded for thingies has as far as I know never
been free of charge. Nokia etc. paid SUN for Java ME back when a
Nokia 3XXX was the phone.
Nobody should be surprised of that.
If they don't want to pay then they can go for Android.
SE is different.
First people need to realize that Java SE is a standard not a product.
There are multiple products that implement the Java standard SE.
OpenJDK is open source and free both as in free speech and as in free beer.
Oracle Java is not open source. So not free speech. And may or may not
be free of charge aka free beer.
You can not download it without accepting Oracle's license.
Any business using Java should have studied those license
conditions before downloading and using.
Using an Oracle product without having read the license
seems extremely careless to me!!
The suggestion to remove certain parts of the Oracle Java distribution
is very dangerous as the Java license actually specified what can
be removed and what can not. Removing something that can not be
removed per license will void the license.
Other Java implementations like IBM and HP are governed by their
licenses.
Which again people should read!

Perhaps people should be a bit more cautious in selecting and using
something that was designed from the beginning to be "the Borg", to
dominate the market. Unless there is clear language in such licenses to
prohibit such, then sooner or later, someone will attempt to "use" the
product to reach into your wallets.
Even if an old version cannot be used in such a manner, new versions can
be more restrictive, and if you're already into the technology, it's
harder to get away from it. For example, stuff that worked on Weendoze
XP, and won't work on weendoze 10, and you're now running weendoze 10
and need the newer versions.

I don't think there is significant change in license terms from SUN to
Oracle.

Oracle's license lawyers are just a bit more "active" (to use a very
polite term) than SUN's.

People should obvious read and comply with the license terms.

If they don't like Oracle Java license terms, then they can just pick
OpenJDK for free or pay IBM for IBM Java or pay Azul for
Zing.

Nobody is forcing anyone to use Oracle's Java. But if people chose
to then they better comply with license terms.

Arne

David Froble

2016-12-18 11:29:58 UTC

Post by David Froble

The point is very relevant, but it is not a very good article.
Embedded.
Java ME & Java SE Embedded for thingies has as far as I know never
been free of charge. Nokia etc. paid SUN for Java ME back when a
Nokia 3XXX was the phone.
Nobody should be surprised of that.
If they don't want to pay then they can go for Android.
SE is different.
First people need to realize that Java SE is a standard not a product.
There are multiple products that implement the Java standard SE.
OpenJDK is open source and free both as in free speech and as in free beer.
Oracle Java is not open source. So not free speech. And may or may not
be free of charge aka free beer.
You can not download it without accepting Oracle's license.
Any business using Java should have studied those license
conditions before downloading and using.
Using an Oracle product without having read the license
seems extremely careless to me!!
The suggestion to remove certain parts of the Oracle Java distribution
is very dangerous as the Java license actually specified what can
be removed and what can not. Removing something that can not be
removed per license will void the license.
Other Java implementations like IBM and HP are governed by their
licenses.
Which again people should read!

Perhaps people should be a bit more cautious in selecting and using
something that was designed from the beginning to be "the Borg", to
dominate the market. Unless there is clear language in such licenses to
prohibit such, then sooner or later, someone will attempt to "use" the
product to reach into your wallets.
Even if an old version cannot be used in such a manner, new versions can
be more restrictive, and if you're already into the technology, it's
harder to get away from it. For example, stuff that worked on Weendoze
XP, and won't work on weendoze 10, and you're now running weendoze 10
and need the newer versions.

I don't think there is significant change in license terms from SUN to
Oracle.
Oracle's license lawyers are just a bit more "active" (to use a very
polite term) than SUN's.
People should obvious read and comply with the license terms.
If they don't like Oracle Java license terms, then they can just pick
OpenJDK for free or pay IBM for IBM Java or pay Azul for
Zing.
Nobody is forcing anyone to use Oracle's Java. But if people chose
to then they better comply with license terms.

I do not disagree with what you write, as far as it goes. But you're focusing
on something specific. I'm looking at it from a different perspective.

Kerry likes to quote Gretsky, "skate to where the puck will be". An additional
thing I (not a hockey fan) notice. Many times a hockey player will not play to
the puck, but to opponents. I guess the idea is that if the opponent cannot
reach the puck, they cannot score on your team.

In business, many always think the better product will succeed. However, it
seems that some lean toward the "deny the opposition" more than "provide a
better produce / service" concept. Thus we get free Internet Explorer, not to
make a profit from it, but to drive all opposition that seeks to sell a browser
from the market. Know of any browser today that actually gets sold? I don't.
True, the advertising scheme is profitable, but direct sales, doesn't exist(that
I'm aware of).

The problem with this tactic is that it can succeed, should one be able to wait
out the opposition. What it does is deny the user choice, and perhaps good
products. Maybe such as VMS ???

Arne Vajhøj

2016-12-21 02:29:44 UTC

Post by David Froble
I do not disagree with what you write, as far as it goes. But you're
focusing on something specific. I'm looking at it from a different
perspective.
Kerry likes to quote Gretsky, "skate to where the puck will be". An
additional thing I (not a hockey fan) notice. Many times a hockey
player will not play to the puck, but to opponents. I guess the idea is
that if the opponent cannot reach the puck, they cannot score on your team.
In business, many always think the better product will succeed.
However, it seems that some lean toward the "deny the opposition" more
than "provide a better produce / service" concept. Thus we get free
Internet Explorer, not to make a profit from it, but to drive all
opposition that seeks to sell a browser from the market. Know of any
browser today that actually gets sold? I don't. True, the advertising
scheme is profitable, but direct sales, doesn't exist(that I'm aware of).
The problem with this tactic is that it can succeed, should one be able
to wait out the opposition. What it does is deny the user choice, and
perhaps good products.

Well - browser development seems to thrive and users have plenty of
choices for browser.

Arne

Paul Sture

2016-12-18 13:04:25 UTC

And the license for the VirtualBox Extension Pack changed a month ago.

The Extension Pack adds support for USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 devices,
VirtualBox RDP, disk encryption, NVMe and PXE boot for Intel cards:

The virtual USB 2.0 (EHCI) device
The virtual USB 3.0 (xHCI) device (new in Version 5.n)
VirtualBox Remote Desktop Protocol (VRDP) support
Intel PXE boot ROM with support for the E1000 network card
Experimental support for PCI passthrough on Linux hosts
Host webcam passthrough (new in Version 5.n)
Disk image encryption with AES (new in Version 5.n)

In my usage of VirtualBox, I have only used the USB 2.0 component
of the above functionality, and that was several years ago. For
me it can go, others may not be so fortunate.

A quick comparison of the "before" and "after" licenses shows

Under "§ 2 Grant of license":

Personal Use
------------
Before:
“Personal Use” requires that you use the Extension Pack on the same
Host Computer where you installed it yourself and that no more than
one client connect to that Host Computer at a time for the purpose
of displaying Guest Computers remotely.

After:
“Personal Use” is use solely by the person downloading the Product
from Oracle on a single Host Computer, provided that no more than
one client or remote computer is connected to that Host Computer and
that client or remote computer is used solely to remotely view the
Guest Computers.

Educational Use
---------------
Before:
“Educational use” is any use in an academic institution (schools,
colleges and universities, by teachers and students).

After:
“Educational Use” is any use by teachers or students in an academic
institution (schools, colleges and universities) as part of the
institution’s educational curriculum.

Evaluation
----------
Before:
“Evaluation” means testing the Extension Pack for a reasonable
period (that is, normally for a few weeks); after expiry of that
term, you are no longer permitted to evaluate the Extension Pack.

After:
“Evaluation” means testing the Product for up to thirty (30) days;
after expiry of that term, you are no longer permitted to use the
Product.

Removing the Extensions Pack from a system is surprisingly simple.
Here's what I did on a Mac (assumes VBoxManage is in your PATH):

$ VBoxManage list extpacks
Extension Packs: 1
Pack no. 0: Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack
Version: 5.0.28
Revision: 111378
Edition:
Description: USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 Host Controller, Host Webcam, VirtualBox RDP, PXE ROM, Disk Encryption.
VRDE Module: VBoxVRDP
Usable: true
Why unusable:

$ VBoxManage extpack uninstall 'Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack'
0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100%
Successfully uninstalled "Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack".

$ VBoxManage list extpacks
Extension Packs: 0

Note that this was done from a non-admin account; shortly after '0%'
appeared in the above display, I was presented with the standard macOS
GUI prompt for an admin username and password, and upon entering those
details the removal proceeded.

--
"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain

Jan-Erik Söderholm

2016-12-18 13:15:41 UTC

A bit unrelated, but... :-)

Post by Paul Sture
$ VBoxManage extpack uninstall 'Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack'
0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100%
Successfully uninstalled "Oracle VM VirtualBox Extension Pack".

Funny how similar that is to the PCSI outout:

The following product will be installed to destination:
DEC AXPVMS VMS84A_UPDATE V11.0 DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON.]

Portion done:
0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100%

:-)

Paul Sture

2016-12-21 03:21:49 UTC

Post by Jan-Erik SÃ¶derholm
A bit unrelated, but... :-)

DEC AXPVMS VMS84A_UPDATE V11.0 DISK$ALPHASYS:[VMS$COMMON.]
0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...70%...80%...90%...100%
:-)

Quick, get it patented.

The VT100 had rounded corners, didn't it?

:-)

--
"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain

Kerry Main

2016-12-17 19:59:17 UTC

-----Original Message-----
Of Simon Clubley via Info-vax
Sent: 17-Dec-16 2:25 PM
Earth.UFP>
Subject: [Info-vax] Oracle auditing Java users in 2017
According to The Register, Oracle are going to start auditing

Java

usage in 2017 with the aim of making you pay for what they
consider to be non-free use.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_
users_non_compliance/
If you or your company use Java, I recommend reading the whole
article.
Simon.

Oracle and MS are following in DEC's footsteps i.e. arrogant
Sales / Senior Mgmt who think Customers will not change to
something else - even if they keep their pricing high.

Oracle and MS are soon going to be "Trump'ed".

:-)

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

IanD

2016-12-20 17:01:07 UTC

Java

Oracle and MS are following in DEC's footsteps i.e. arrogant
Sales / Senior Mgmt who think Customers will not change to
something else - even if they keep their pricing high.
Oracle and MS are soon going to be "Trump'ed".
:-)
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

Can't say I've ever liked Oracle, attitude filters from the top down. Look at the CEO!

MS I happen to think have turned over a new leaf. The CEO has a different attitude than the previous greedy $#%#%#%

MS are trying to transition away from purely trying to lock in folk with office etc and are at least trying to become as open as possible. They cannot switch overnight the same as VSI cannot switch overnight as far as licensing is concerned. As these companies (MS and VSI) transition I expect more flexibility going forward

I'm no fan of MS at all. I've really disliked them for years but I do acknowledge they have changed their tune in the past 2 years. They actually contribute towards a lot of open source projects which I didn't know until someone pointed it out to me. Are they perfect? far from it but they are at least heading in a right direction unlike Oracle who remain totally arrogant imo

Stephen Hoffman

2016-12-20 18:10:44 UTC

...arrogant Sales / Senior Mgmt who think Customers will not change to
something else - even if they keep their pricing high....

Can't say I've ever liked {vendor expurgated}, attitude filters from
the top down...
{vendor expurgated} have turned over a new leaf. The {vendor
expurgated} CEO has a different attitude than the previous greedy
$#%#%#%

The current cast of characters in some front office is interesting and
it's excellent fodder for gossip and for page views and the related
revenues, but large-scale business software deployments routinely
extend past the employment of and variously the lifetimes of some of
the management folks involved, and past the lifetimes of some of the
products and businesses involved. Or of the customer-facing and
middle-management folks, or the channel partners or resellers or
whoever else is involved.

If you're looking at specific vendors that you're already working with,
then you're either hopefully already working on your contingencies, or
you're already scrod.

Determine what local packages and tools are critical local
dependencies, and whether y'all are willing to accept those as
dependencies.

Compare your current environment and tools or your upcoming planned
acquisition of new tools against the costs of local development or of
porting to some other package or some other vendor.

Of how long it'll take to develop anew and/or to port and/or to migrate
tooling or data, too. Having an intractable external dependency
leaves your organization vulnerable to the entity that controls that
dependency. (That dependency can be a subtle too, as there are times
when the customer controls the relationship. That's not as common,
but it happens.) That vulnerability whether due to business
practices and licensing changes that might arise such as the risk of
increasingly extractive licensing terms or costs during future vendor
negotiations, to wholesale short-notice vendor product cancellation and
for any of various possible reasons.

Vendors can and will change management and ownership and policies and
practices and prices over time, whether to positive or negative
directions and sometimes both directions together. Also consider why
you're dealing with that particular vendor, whether that is based
solely on price or on other and sometimes more subtle factors. Also
look at the business and revenue trends that the vendor is likely
encountering, too. Acquiring an alternate supplier of a commodity
product is usually easy. Getting a different supplier for a bespoke
dependency or specialized skills or tooling can be much more
problematic.

Also look at whether the dependencies you're considering or are already
dealing with still make sense — even if they're not the best choices,
as it's common for a longstanding product or project deployment to be
less-than-optimal by current standards — or if there are other or
different or better approaches that you can or should consider or
should start to develop or should start to migrate to. More than a few
of the IT deployments routinely exceed the lifetime of the ever-popular
analyst memes. Or of the original tooling.

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

Kerry Main

2016-12-22 01:46:39 UTC

-----Original Message-----
Of IanD via Info-vax
Sent: 20-Dec-16 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Oracle auditing Java users in 2017
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 2:23:44 AM UTC+11, Kerry

-----Original Message-----

Behalf Of

Simon Clubley via Info-vax
Sent: 17-Dec-16 2:25 PM
Earth.UFP>
Subject: [Info-vax] Oracle auditing Java users in 2017
According to The Register, Oracle are going to start

auditing

Post by Kerry Main
Java

usage in 2017 with the aim of making you pay for what they

consider

to be non-free use.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_

users_non_compliance/
If you or your company use Java, I recommend reading the

whole

article.
Simon.

Oracle and MS are following in DEC's footsteps i.e. arrogant

Sales /

Post by Kerry Main
Senior Mgmt who think Customers will not change to

something else -

Post by Kerry Main
even if they keep their pricing high.
Oracle and MS are soon going to be "Trump'ed".
:-)
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

folk

And while they

with office etc and are at least trying to become as open as
possible. They cannot switch overnight the same as VSI cannot
switch overnight as far as licensing is concerned. As these
companies (MS and VSI) transition I expect more flexibility

going

forward
I'm no fan of MS at all. I've really disliked them for years

but I do

acknowledge they have changed their tune in the past 2 years.
They actually contribute towards a lot of open source projects
which I didn't know until someone pointed it out to me. Are

they

perfect? far from it but they are at least heading in a right
direction unlike Oracle who remain totally arrogant imo

Microsoft has also adopted Oracle style licensing i.e. per core
for Windows Server and SQL Server.

Since the general scaling strategy is "add cores", you can see
where they are headed.

And while they state Hyper-V is "free" compared to VMware, that
is only if the VM's are based on Windows Datacenter which costs
really large $'s.

http://bit.ly/1YN4gQK

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/12/windows-ser
ver-2016-moving-to-per-core-not-per-socket-licensing/

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

Simon Clubley

2016-12-24 01:15:57 UTC