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Intel Optane Specs
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Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-20 14:39:38 UTC
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Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable memory
is now (limited) shipping...

Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-brief.html


https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-first-optane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/


No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's enough
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Dirk Munk
2017-03-20 18:12:05 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable memory
is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-first-optane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's enough
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
Yes, NVMe for local storage, and NVMe over FC.
IanD
2017-03-22 17:26:38 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable memory
is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-first-optane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's enough
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Interesting

So now we have 3 tiers of local memory

So we can crunch immediate calculations in DRAM and then have other cores in our multicore VMS systems pre-processing the next level in Optane and then have the slower stuff (if you can call it slow!) on NAND

Then there will be algorithms to be developed on calculating the break even point on whether to shuffle the data up the speed tier towards the processors

Wow, things are complex at the high end of town

I'd be interested in this going forward when a consumer version pops out

I'm planning on taking up what I started some time ago but got sidetracked, large data set number crunching (on a home scale!). Having 375 GB of main Optane memory will be a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to populate a system with that much DRAM, or even a fraction of that 375 GB.

With technology such as this, one has to start thinking about maximum memory support of your OS's, especially if your still running Windows 7, which some people will not give up (Windows home premium taps out at 16 GB from memory).
Windows 10 Home Premium stops at 128 GB, too small for this Optane SSD!
2TB for Win 10 Pro and above at least :-)

What's VMS's memory limitations? Will VMS-x86 change the picture any?
<snip>
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Yes, NVMe for local storage, and NVMe over FC.
This is over the PCI-e bus for now

I guess Intel couldn't wait for PCI-e 4 to come out even though it doubles the throughput, then again, this Optane is x4 isn't it, I think that's 4 lanes x 1 gb per lane under PCI-e 3.0

Over FC? As in have some mass storage device acting like a large memory pool, much like how a SAN works but this would be for virtual memory?

The latency would be crippling for high performance BUT I image you could then have systems configured for things like mass sorting operations where virtual memory would be this Optane storage - that's gotta be better than having to provision one large single box somewhere to do all the grunt work and that you have to shift the data onto to make use of the ram

I would image the likes of AWS and Azure would be very interested in this Optane. They could then offer larger scale memory instances without having to physically provision specific boxes (if it becomes available via FC), although the memory speed would be slower but you'd just offer it at a cheaper rate

We are getting one step closer to HP's Machine :)
Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-22 22:05:47 UTC
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Post by IanD
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable memory
is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-first-optane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's enough
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Interesting
So now we have 3 tiers of local memory
So we can crunch immediate calculations in DRAM and then have other
cores in our multicore VMS systems pre-processing the next level in
Optane and then have the slower stuff (if you can call it slow!) on NAND
Processor internal cache, shared cache, local DRAM, remote DRAM (RDMA
or otherwise), local NV, remote NV, SSD, local disk, remote disk, local
tape, remote tape, etc. Systems have been complex for quite a few
years. Using the marshalling routines on another platform has been
really nice — gets the data loaded from storage into memory and into
the data structures necessary, and back out again, and the routines
take care of dealing with all of the code slogging and the glue code;
whether it's a flat file or a database or whatever underneath. (Yes,
there are cases when direct access into the databases is definitely
necessary for reasons of performance or scale, but these routines get
rid of a whole lot of the cases where that level of control isn't
necessary. And much like how we once had to — thankfully only rarely
— had to deal directly with disk geometries when we really needed
storage performance, almost no-one needs to look at geometries anymore.)
Post by IanD
Then there will be algorithms to be developed on calculating the break
even point on whether to shuffle the data up the speed tier towards the
processors
That stuff is already in use in various environments, Apple Fusion for
storage, and OpenVMS — an aeon or two ago — had a layered product
package called HSM that performed that for then-current storage. There
are still find traces of that HSM package visible in the DIRECTORY
/FULL command output, too.
Post by IanD
Wow, things are complex at the high end of town
I'd be surprised if a couple of the vendors weren't really interested
in pushing this memory into smartphones, as there's been rather more
innovation happening in that range in recent years — and a whole lot of
the total production for flash memory goes into those devices, too.
Post by IanD
I'd be interested in this going forward when a consumer version pops out
I'd expect to see it on smartphones and tablets first, maybe on
high-end x86 boxes.
Post by IanD
I'm planning on taking up what I started some time ago but got
sidetracked, large data set number crunching (on a home scale!). Having
375 GB of main Optane memory will be a hell of a lot cheaper than
trying to populate a system with that much DRAM, or even a fraction of
that 375 GB.
https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2016/05/now-available-x1-instances-the-largest-amazon-ec2-memory-optimized-instance-with-2-tb-of-memory/


https://www.ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/infra/ (half-terabyte is
~US$751 per month)

Some testing-related memory-related reading.
https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2016/09/02/simulating-six-terabytes-of-serious-ram
Post by IanD
With technology such as this, one has to start thinking about maximum
memory support of your OS's, ...
What's VMS's memory limitations? Will VMS-x86 change the picture any?
OpenVMS has 50-bit physical support on Itanium. Intel will be (is?)
implementing 57-bit physical addressing for x86-64. That's 256 TB to
128 PB of physical address space, depending on page size, and
particularly depending on how massive the customer purchasing budget
might be. Older x86-64 implements 48-bit physical.

https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/managed/2b/80/5-level_paging_white_paper.pdf


As for what is planned for OpenVMS x86-64 support, we shall learn in
the fullness of time.

As for Microsoft Windows...

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx

Beyond addressing, there's optimization for the file system for SSD —
that's something that's become common in the last few years — and how
to manage NV memory without exposing it to rogue writes will continue
to be interesting — the file system and the page tables are likely
going to get a whole lot friendlier, in some implementations.

As for what Apple is rolling out now, as a replacement for the
HFS-heritage file system, and that's nearly old as the ODS-heritage
file system on OpenVMS...
https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/Introduction/Introduction.html


...
Post by IanD
This is over the PCI-e bus for now
Thunderbolt allows extending PCIe, too. Same with various USB-C
implementations, and more servers will certainly be picking up support
for that connection.

Having a PCIe or other expansion box hanging off of a
Thunderbolt-capable laptop looks weird, but it does work. It's also
routine for PCIe buses and boxes to be hanging off of servers these
days, it's just less obvious when it's all mounted in a big cabinet —
much like Unibus boxes from an earlier era, and like the various
AlphaServers that offered PCI-X buses and boxes, for instance.
Post by IanD
I guess Intel couldn't wait for PCI-e 4 to come out even though it
doubles the throughput, then again, this Optane is x4 isn't it, I think
that's 4 lanes x 1 gb per lane under PCI-e 3.0
Over FC? As in have some mass storage device acting like a large memory
pool, much like how a SAN works but this would be for virtual memory?
Byte-addressable storage. Expect to see it running via FC, but ponder
whether that or performing RDMA to remote servers will be more
effective for the application designs — beyond being able to store data
directly into some non-volatile part of the address space of a remote
server, ponder what some HBVS memory replication package might provide
when using host-local non-volatile storage.
Post by IanD
The latency would be crippling for high performance BUT I image you
could then have systems configured for things like mass sorting
operations where virtual memory would be this Optane storage - that's
gotta be better than having to provision one large single box somewhere
to do all the grunt work and that you have to shift the data onto to
make use of the ram
Stuff out on the far end of a traditional I/O bus — HDD or SSD — is
going to be around for decades, but — like HDDs are becoming the modern
equivalent of a tape pool — it'll trend toward infrequent and archival
storage.
Post by IanD
I would image the likes of AWS and Azure would be very interested in
this Optane. They could then offer larger scale memory instances
without having to physically provision specific boxes (if it becomes
available via FC), although the memory speed would be slower but you'd
just offer it at a cheaper rate
I'd wager a fair chunk of the remote access will be via 10 GbE, 40 GbE
and faster, and Infiniband at the high-end. NVMf — NVMe over Fabric —
for details. FC has always been expensive — profitable for the
vendors, too — and it'll be around for a while.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Kerry Main
2017-03-25 15:00:50 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
IanD via Info-vax
Sent: March 22, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Intel Optane Specs
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable
memory is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-
drives/optane-ssd-d
Post by Stephen Hoffman
c-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-
first-op
Post by Stephen Hoffman
tane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's
enough
Post by Stephen Hoffman
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Interesting
So now we have 3 tiers of local memory
So we can crunch immediate calculations in DRAM and then have other
cores in our multicore VMS systems pre-processing the next level in
Optane and then have the slower stuff (if you can call it slow!) on
NAND
Then there will be algorithms to be developed on calculating the break
even point on whether to shuffle the data up the speed tier towards
the processors
Wow, things are complex at the high end of town
I'd be interested in this going forward when a consumer version pops out
I'm planning on taking up what I started some time ago but got
sidetracked, large data set number crunching (on a home scale!).
Having 375 GB of main Optane memory will be a hell of a lot cheaper
than trying to populate a system with that much DRAM, or even a
fraction of that 375 GB.
With technology such as this, one has to start thinking about maximum
memory support of your OS's, especially if your still running Windows
7, which some people will not give up (Windows home premium taps
out at 16 GB from memory).
Windows 10 Home Premium stops at 128 GB, too small for this Optane SSD!
2TB for Win 10 Pro and above at least :-)
What's VMS's memory limitations? Will VMS-x86 change the picture any?
<snip>
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Yes, NVMe for local storage, and NVMe over FC.
This is over the PCI-e bus for now
I guess Intel couldn't wait for PCI-e 4 to come out even though it
doubles the throughput, then again, this Optane is x4 isn't it, I think
that's 4 lanes x 1 gb per lane under PCI-e 3.0
Over FC? As in have some mass storage device acting like a large
memory pool, much like how a SAN works but this would be for virtual
memory?
The latency would be crippling for high performance BUT I image you
could then have systems configured for things like mass sorting
operations where virtual memory would be this Optane storage -
that's gotta be better than having to provision one large single box
somewhere to do all the grunt work and that you have to shift the data
onto to make use of the ram
I would image the likes of AWS and Azure would be very interested in
this Optane. They could then offer larger scale memory instances
without having to physically provision specific boxes (if it becomes
available via FC), although the memory speed would be slower but
you'd just offer it at a cheaper rate
We are getting one step closer to HP's Machine :)
HPE's Machine is dead.

Martin Fink architect left HPE .. or rather was booted from HPE. SGI, which HPE acquired late 2016, seems to be where HPE high end focus is.

https://www.hpcwire.com/2016/11/22/hpe-sgi-tackle-exascale-enterprise-targets/
" At first blush, and maybe second blush too, Hewlett Packard Enterprise’s (HPE) purchase of SGI seems like an unambiguous win-win. SGI’s advanced shared memory technology, its popular UV product line (HANA), deep vertical market expertise, and services-led go-to-market capability all give HPE a leg up in its drive to remake itself. Bear in mind HPE came into existence just a year ago with the split of Hewlett-Packard."


For those interested in a bit more of a techie focus on 3D XPoint (btw, pronounced "cross-point"):

https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/20/like-flash-3d-xpoint-enters-datacenter-cache/
" This time, though, the performance and cost of 3D XPoint will be a lot closer to DRAM memory – and significantly will be addressable as memory – in the systems. This is going to change the way architects design systems and programmers push them to do so as they try to find a better balance of components to move more data in and out of systems faster and more predictably."


Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
j***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-25 21:47:42 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Kerry Main
-----Original Message-----
IanD via Info-vax
Sent: March 22, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Intel Optane Specs
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable
memory is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-
drives/optane-ssd-d
Post by Stephen Hoffman
c-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-
first-op
Post by Stephen Hoffman
tane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's
enough
Post by Stephen Hoffman
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Interesting
So now we have 3 tiers of local memory
So we can crunch immediate calculations in DRAM and then have other
cores in our multicore VMS systems pre-processing the next level in
Optane and then have the slower stuff (if you can call it slow!) on
NAND
Then there will be algorithms to be developed on calculating the break
even point on whether to shuffle the data up the speed tier towards
the processors
Wow, things are complex at the high end of town
I'd be interested in this going forward when a consumer version pops out
I'm planning on taking up what I started some time ago but got
sidetracked, large data set number crunching (on a home scale!).
Having 375 GB of main Optane memory will be a hell of a lot cheaper
than trying to populate a system with that much DRAM, or even a
fraction of that 375 GB.
With technology such as this, one has to start thinking about maximum
memory support of your OS's, especially if your still running Windows
7, which some people will not give up (Windows home premium taps
out at 16 GB from memory).
Windows 10 Home Premium stops at 128 GB, too small for this Optane SSD!
2TB for Win 10 Pro and above at least :-)
What's VMS's memory limitations? Will VMS-x86 change the picture any?
<snip>
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Yes, NVMe for local storage, and NVMe over FC.
This is over the PCI-e bus for now
I guess Intel couldn't wait for PCI-e 4 to come out even though it
doubles the throughput, then again, this Optane is x4 isn't it, I think
that's 4 lanes x 1 gb per lane under PCI-e 3.0
Over FC? As in have some mass storage device acting like a large
memory pool, much like how a SAN works but this would be for virtual
memory?
The latency would be crippling for high performance BUT I image you
could then have systems configured for things like mass sorting
operations where virtual memory would be this Optane storage -
that's gotta be better than having to provision one large single box
somewhere to do all the grunt work and that you have to shift the data
onto to make use of the ram
I would image the likes of AWS and Azure would be very interested in
this Optane. They could then offer larger scale memory instances
without having to physically provision specific boxes (if it becomes
available via FC), although the memory speed would be slower but
you'd just offer it at a cheaper rate
We are getting one step closer to HP's Machine :)
HPE's Machine is dead.
Martin Fink architect left HPE .. or rather was booted from HPE. SGI, which HPE acquired late 2016, seems to be where HPE high end focus is.
https://www.hpcwire.com/2016/11/22/hpe-sgi-tackle-exascale-enterprise-targets/
" At first blush, and maybe second blush too, Hewlett Packard Enterprise’s (HPE) purchase of SGI seems like an unambiguous win-win. SGI’s advanced shared memory technology, its popular UV product line (HANA), deep vertical market expertise, and services-led go-to-market capability all give HPE a leg up in its drive to remake itself. Bear in mind HPE came into existence just a year ago with the split of Hewlett-Packard."
https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/20/like-flash-3d-xpoint-enters-datacenter-cache/
" This time, though, the performance and cost of 3D XPoint will be a lot closer to DRAM memory – and significantly will be addressable as memory – in the systems. This is going to change the way architects design systems and programmers push them to do so as they try to find a better balance of components to move more data in and out of systems faster and more predictably."
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Xpoint eh. Decisions decisions. Who to trust. Intel (via Tim
Prickett Morgan), or SemiAccurate, who in an extended article
on the subject have this to say:
" SemiAccurate said Xpoint is “pretty much broken” -
endurance is so low it only beats existing flash solutions by
the barest of margins. You can claim differences in packaging,
controllers, layouts and the rest, but on a purchasable product
to purchasable product comparison, Xpoint is effectively on par
with flash for endurance, 1.8x best case. Again this is using
their own provided numbers and some grade school math, and the
exact drives they used in their presentations for comparisons,
nothing fancy."

That and loads more at
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/03/19/intel-officially-introduces-xpoint-dc-p4800x-ssd/

It's Intel, and it's not another spin on x86. What could
possibly go wrong? I guess we'll see.
j***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-25 21:52:09 UTC
Reply
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Post by j***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Kerry Main
-----Original Message-----
IanD via Info-vax
Sent: March 22, 2017 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Intel Optane Specs
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Some of the recent NVMe-based non-volatile PCIe byte-addressable
memory is now (limited) shipping...
Specs and life expectancy, etc. for the Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X
product; the first product based on 3D XPoint...
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-
drives/optane-ssd-d
Post by Stephen Hoffman
c-p4800x-brief.html
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/intels-
first-op
Post by Stephen Hoffman
tane-ssd-375gb-that-you-can-also-use-as-ram/
No NVMe drivers available yet for OpenVMS, though — if there's
enough
Post by Stephen Hoffman
interest — I'm sure that'll be resolved...
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Interesting
So now we have 3 tiers of local memory
So we can crunch immediate calculations in DRAM and then have other
cores in our multicore VMS systems pre-processing the next level in
Optane and then have the slower stuff (if you can call it slow!) on
NAND
Then there will be algorithms to be developed on calculating the break
even point on whether to shuffle the data up the speed tier towards
the processors
Wow, things are complex at the high end of town
I'd be interested in this going forward when a consumer version pops out
I'm planning on taking up what I started some time ago but got
sidetracked, large data set number crunching (on a home scale!).
Having 375 GB of main Optane memory will be a hell of a lot cheaper
than trying to populate a system with that much DRAM, or even a
fraction of that 375 GB.
With technology such as this, one has to start thinking about maximum
memory support of your OS's, especially if your still running Windows
7, which some people will not give up (Windows home premium taps
out at 16 GB from memory).
Windows 10 Home Premium stops at 128 GB, too small for this Optane SSD!
2TB for Win 10 Pro and above at least :-)
What's VMS's memory limitations? Will VMS-x86 change the picture any?
<snip>
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Yes, NVMe for local storage, and NVMe over FC.
This is over the PCI-e bus for now
I guess Intel couldn't wait for PCI-e 4 to come out even though it
doubles the throughput, then again, this Optane is x4 isn't it, I think
that's 4 lanes x 1 gb per lane under PCI-e 3.0
Over FC? As in have some mass storage device acting like a large
memory pool, much like how a SAN works but this would be for virtual
memory?
The latency would be crippling for high performance BUT I image you
could then have systems configured for things like mass sorting
operations where virtual memory would be this Optane storage -
that's gotta be better than having to provision one large single box
somewhere to do all the grunt work and that you have to shift the data
onto to make use of the ram
I would image the likes of AWS and Azure would be very interested in
this Optane. They could then offer larger scale memory instances
without having to physically provision specific boxes (if it becomes
available via FC), although the memory speed would be slower but
you'd just offer it at a cheaper rate
We are getting one step closer to HP's Machine :)
HPE's Machine is dead.
Martin Fink architect left HPE .. or rather was booted from HPE. SGI, which HPE acquired late 2016, seems to be where HPE high end focus is.
https://www.hpcwire.com/2016/11/22/hpe-sgi-tackle-exascale-enterprise-targets/
" At first blush, and maybe second blush too, Hewlett Packard Enterprise’s (HPE) purchase of SGI seems like an unambiguous win-win. SGI’s advanced shared memory technology, its popular UV product line (HANA), deep vertical market expertise, and services-led go-to-market capability all give HPE a leg up in its drive to remake itself. Bear in mind HPE came into existence just a year ago with the split of Hewlett-Packard."
https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/20/like-flash-3d-xpoint-enters-datacenter-cache/
" This time, though, the performance and cost of 3D XPoint will be a lot closer to DRAM memory – and significantly will be addressable as memory – in the systems. This is going to change the way architects design systems and programmers push them to do so as they try to find a better balance of components to move more data in and out of systems faster and more predictably."
Regards,
Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Xpoint eh. Decisions decisions. Who to trust. Intel (via Tim
Prickett Morgan), or SemiAccurate, who in an extended article
" SemiAccurate said Xpoint is “pretty much broken” -
endurance is so low it only beats existing flash solutions by
the barest of margins. You can claim differences in packaging,
controllers, layouts and the rest, but on a purchasable product
to purchasable product comparison, Xpoint is effectively on par
with flash for endurance, 1.8x best case. Again this is using
their own provided numbers and some grade school math, and the
exact drives they used in their presentations for comparisons,
nothing fancy."
That and loads more at
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/03/19/intel-officially-introduces-xpoint-dc-p4800x-ssd/
It's Intel, and it's not another spin on x86. What could
possibly go wrong? I guess we'll see.
Forgot to write that the SemiAccurate article is attributed to
Charlie Demerjian, another name that may be familiar, and also
one that seems to be less than keen on Xpoint.
Kerry Main
2017-03-25 23:35:01 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
johnwallace4--- via Info-vax
Sent: March 25, 2017 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Intel Optane Specs
[snip]
Xpoint eh. Decisions decisions. Who to trust. Intel (via Tim Prickett
Morgan), or SemiAccurate, who in an extended article on the subject
" SemiAccurate said Xpoint is “pretty much broken” - endurance is so
low it only beats existing flash solutions by the barest of margins.
You can claim differences in packaging, controllers, layouts and the
rest, but on a purchasable product to purchasable product
comparison,
Xpoint is effectively on par with flash for endurance, 1.8x best case.
Again this is using their own provided numbers and some grade
school
math, and the exact drives they used in their presentations for
comparisons, nothing fancy."
That and loads more at
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/03/19/intel-officially-introduces-
xpoint-
dc-p4800x-ssd/
It's Intel, and it's not another spin on x86. What could possibly go
wrong? I guess we'll see.
Forgot to write that the SemiAccurate article is attributed to Charlie
Demerjian, another name that may be familiar, and also one that
seems to be less than keen on Xpoint.
Perhaps the Intel marketing types all graduated from Trump University?

"Trust me.. its going to be great!"

😊

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
Stephen Hoffman
2017-03-26 17:48:02 UTC
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Post by j***@yahoo.co.uk
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/03/19/intel-officially-introduces-xpoint-dc-p4800x-ssd/
That write-up seems more interested in pointing out that Intel didn't
meet their original marketing forecasts around the product endurance,
than in discussing what can be done with the product, and how.
Okay, failing to set or mis-setting customer expectations is bad.
We've all certainly encountered cases of that before, too.
Having some new 3D XPoint SSD with better features than existing SSDs?
Okay, that's somewhat less interesting (to me), and I'd infer that is
what the writer is focusing on.
Having byte-addressability and twice or better the endurance of flash,
and far better latency and far better write speeds? That is useful.
We're not up to DRAM-replacement range here, and this gear is still
pretty expensive, but I can definitely see uses for this product in my
apps.
Running app code or library code (built position-independent) right off
of the (byte-addressable) storage, for instance.
Mapping a range of memory into OpenVMS, and filling it with application
data or code — and not having to reload or rebuild that cache at reboot
— seems useful, too.
Will we be seeing this particular product generation in widespread use?
Nope. But byte-addressable storage will only get more common,
cheaper, and/or faster.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Kerry Main
2017-04-02 13:49:47 UTC
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-----Original Message-----
Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax
Sent: March 26, 2017 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Info-vax] Intel Optane Specs
Post by j***@yahoo.co.uk
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/03/19/intel-officially-introduces-
xpoint-
Post by j***@yahoo.co.uk
dc-p4800x-ssd/
That write-up seems more interested in pointing out that Intel didn't
meet their original marketing forecasts around the product endurance,
than in discussing what can be done with the product, and how.
Okay, failing to set or mis-setting customer expectations is bad.
We've all certainly encountered cases of that before, too.
Having some new 3D XPoint SSD with better features than existing SSDs?
Okay, that's somewhat less interesting (to me), and I'd infer that is
what the writer is focusing on.
Having byte-addressability and twice or better the endurance of flash,
and far better latency and far better write speeds? That is useful.
We're not up to DRAM-replacement range here, and this gear is still
pretty expensive, but I can definitely see uses for this product in my
apps.
Running app code or library code (built position-independent) right off
of the (byte-addressable) storage, for instance.
Mapping a range of memory into OpenVMS, and filling it with
application data or code — and not having to reload or rebuild that
cache at reboot — seems useful, too."
Will we be seeing this particular product generation in widespread use?
Nope. But byte-addressable storage will only get more common,
cheaper, and/or faster.
Interesting updates on Optane (3D XPoint NV memory/storage):

Using Optane Memory Like A Hyperscaler (Mar 28, 2017)
<https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/28/use-optane-memory-like-hyperscaler/>
"Last week, Intel unveiled its first Optane 3D XPoint solid state cards and drives, which are now being previewed by selected hyperscalers and which will be rolling out in various capacities and form factors in the coming quarters. As we anticipated, and as Intel previewed last fall, the company is also rolling out Optane memory sticks in the M.2 form factor, which splits the difference between a traditional DRAM memory module and a non-volatile memory card that plugs into a more traditional PCI-Express x8 peripheral slot."

Like Flash, 3D XPoint Enters The Datacenter As Cache (Mar 20, 2017)
<https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/20/like-flash-3d-xpoint-enters-datacenter-cache/>
" This time, though, the performance and cost of 3D XPoint will be a lot closer to DRAM memory – and significantly will be addressable as memory – in the systems. This is going to change the way architects design systems and programmers push them to do so as they try to find a better balance of components to move more data in and out of systems faster and more predictably."

[see rest of articles]


Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com

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