Discussion:
Older SCSI controllers in a VMS RX2800
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Rich Jordan
2020-09-23 15:02:04 UTC
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We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.

The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).

If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.

Thanks
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-23 17:04:48 UTC
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We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1)...
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA
or KZPEA) will work...
Open the rx2800 box and have a look at its configuration.

All I've met have had PCIe slots, and not PCI-X slots.

Options: there are PCIe SCSI adapters around, and there are disks that
can be added to Alpha. Or cluster the boxes, if you have licenses for
that.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Rich Jordan
2020-09-23 21:19:05 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1)...
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA
or KZPEA) will work...
Open the rx2800 box and have a look at its configuration.
All I've met have had PCIe slots, and not PCI-X slots.
Options: there are PCIe SCSI adapters around, and there are disks that
can be added to Alpha. Or cluster the boxes, if you have licenses for
that.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Hoff
thanks for replying. I'm buried in other crap so didn't have time to open the 2800 or dig past the basic info online.

Boss says if we need to get a SCSI adapter its ok, so if the Alpha ones won't work (very likely) we will get one that will.

No cluster license on this one; our old 2620 is clustered but doesn't have disk space available; I could do the restore via decnet but I don't think that would help.

Current restore test on a DS10 with magnetic 10KRPM disks on KZPEA controllers show about 90 minutes for all data from tape to disk. It'll be interesting to see how the integrity does.
abrsvc
2020-09-23 21:32:06 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1)...
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA
or KZPEA) will work...
Open the rx2800 box and have a look at its configuration.
All I've met have had PCIe slots, and not PCI-X slots.
Options: there are PCIe SCSI adapters around, and there are disks that
can be added to Alpha. Or cluster the boxes, if you have licenses for
that.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Hoff
thanks for replying. I'm buried in other crap so didn't have time to open the 2800 or dig past the basic info online.
Boss says if we need to get a SCSI adapter its ok, so if the Alpha ones won't work (very likely) we will get one that will.
No cluster license on this one; our old 2620 is clustered but doesn't have disk space available; I could do the restore via decnet but I don't think that would help.
Current restore test on a DS10 with magnetic 10KRPM disks on KZPEA controllers show about 90 minutes for all data from tape to disk. It'll be interesting to see how the integrity does.
A look at the Quikspecs for the 2800i shows no direct card that will support SCSI. I know that the older RX boxes have scsi cards though. I don't recall the part numbers at the moment, but I can look at mine later if those might help.
Steven Schweda
2020-09-23 23:06:24 UTC
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[...] I know that the older RX boxes have scsi cards though. [...]
I have what looks like an LSI 53C1030 card ("LSI53C1030 PCI-X to Dual
Channel Ultra320 SCSI Multifunction Controller") in an rx2600 and an
rx2660, but these systems have one or more PCI-X slots.

For example, on the rx2600:

ITS $ show devi /full PK

Device PKA0:, device type HP LSI1030 Ultra320 SCSI, [...]
[...]
Device PKF0:, device type HP LSI1030 Ultra320 SCSI, [...]

It's been a while, but, as I recall, the built-in PKA does disk
slots 0 and 1; PKB disk slot 2 and the rear-panel 68-pin SCSI port.

I use one add-in card (PKC) for the DLT tape (MKC400).

I suspect that the PKC+PKD card is actually something else, but I'd
prefer not to open the box for a weak reason.

The PKE+PKF card has two mini 68-pin external ports, currently
unused. A similar card is in the rx2660 (also unused (like the rc2660,
mostly)).


I have no PCIe SCSI cards.
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-24 17:40:53 UTC
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Post by abrsvc
A look at the Quikspecs for the 2800i shows no direct card that will
support SCSI. I know that the older RX boxes have scsi cards though. I
don't recall the part numbers at the moment, but I can look at mine
later if those might help.
Island has some PCIe SCSI modules listed.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Rod Regier
2020-09-24 17:56:05 UTC
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https://www.islandco.com/ic-su320-pci1-1-port-u320-pcie-scsi-hba-for-hp-integrity-rx2660-2800i2-2800i4-openvms-hp-ux

IC-SU320-PCIE ( HP Part No. AT134A )
1 Channel U320 SCSI Controller for HP integrity PCI-e for rx2660rx3600 rx6600 rx2800 i2 and rx2800 i4 OpenVMS and HP-UX
Card typically used in HP Integrity configurations where a PCI-X slot is not available
This is the PCI-e equivalent to the A7173A.
Includes internal and external 68 pin connector (external is SCSI-3 External 68 Pin)
Compare to NX-Ultra320-PCIe and HP AT134A SC11Xe Host Bus Adapter
John H. Reinhardt
2020-09-23 17:14:00 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,

You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus. The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.

I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI cards are supported. Some digging will be required to see if any support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
Rich Jordan
2020-09-25 14:54:30 UTC
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Post by John H. Reinhardt
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,
You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus. The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.
I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI cards are supported. Some digging will be required to see if any support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
John,
turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
John H. Reinhardt
2020-09-25 16:49:05 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
Post by John H. Reinhardt
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,
You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus. The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.
I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI cards are supported. Some digging will be required to see if any support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
John,
turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
Okay. The rX2660 is a different kettle of fish. I have one of those. There are a number of PCI-X SCSI cards that are OpenVMS supported and work. The KZPEA is a re-branded Adaptec 39160 and works fine with OpenVMS. I have 3 of them in my DS10's and XP1000's. I haven't tried it with a SCSI tape drive but it should be supported. They are available cheap on Ebay, I just bought two from here:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-3X-KZPEA-DB-PCI-2-channel-Ultra3-LVD-SCSI-adapter-30-56150-03/143198574855> - $34 with shipping.
--
John H. Reinhardt
David Turner
2020-10-03 22:29:43 UTC
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The KZPEA-DB doe NOT work in the HPE integrity servers

FOr the PCI-X variant you need the A7173A Dual U320 PCI-X
FOr the PCI-e variant you need the AT134A

Both can be used in the rx2660 as long as youhave the right backplane
AD246A PCI-X x 3
AD247A 1 x PCI-X znd 2 x PCI-e


We have all this stuff in stock so buy it from us NOT Ebay !
Post by John H. Reinhardt
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for
loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and
transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer;
basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable
format before compatible working drives become unobtainium.  It'll
be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI
tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards
(KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus
variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it
has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,
    You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't
find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that
was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus.
The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.
I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI
cards are supported.  Some digging will be required to see if any
support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
John,
      turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800.  It has
both types of PCI slots.  I am going to try a U320 card we have here,
and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
Okay.  The rX2660 is a different kettle of fish. I have one of those.
There are a number of PCI-X SCSI cards that are OpenVMS supported and
work.  The KZPEA is a re-branded Adaptec 39160 and works fine with
OpenVMS. I have 3 of them in my DS10's and XP1000's.  I haven't tried it
with a SCSI tape drive but it should be supported.  They are available
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-3X-KZPEA-DB-PCI-2-channel-Ultra3-LVD-SCSI-adapter-30-56150-03/143198574855>
- $34 with shipping.
Rich Jordan
2020-09-25 16:53:02 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
Post by John H. Reinhardt
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,
You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus. The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.
I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI cards are supported. Some digging will be required to see if any support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
John,
turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
U320 card not recognized by VMS; showed up in clue config as a generic PK device but nothing attached is recognized; I'll do some digging to see if the config entries to make it work are available anywhere but first going to see if the KZPCA will work.
John H. Reinhardt
2020-09-25 17:18:26 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
Post by Rich Jordan
Post by John H. Reinhardt
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Hi Rich,
You don't specify which flavor of RX2800 (i2, i4, i6 I couldn't find specs for one that wasn't an i-something so I don't know if that was ever produced) but it looks like the RX2800 is a PCI-E only bus. The cards you mentioned are PCI or PCI-X and not compatible.
I can no longer find the V8.3-1H1 SPD to determine what PCI-E SCSI cards are supported. Some digging will be required to see if any support tapes.
--
John H. Reinhardt
John,
turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
U320 card not recognized by VMS; showed up in clue config as a generic PK device but nothing attached is recognized; I'll do some digging to see if the config entries to make it work are available anywhere but first going to see if the KZPCA will work.
What is the U320 card? It may be possible to add it to the SYS$USER_CONFIG.DATA file in SYS$SYSTEM if it is just a rebranded version of a supported card. Generally it's the PCI subVendor and subDevice codes that are different and those can be "fixed".
--
John H. Reinhardt
Craig A. Berry
2020-09-25 17:21:03 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
John, turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It
has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have
here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
U320 card not recognized by VMS; showed up in clue config as a
generic PK device but nothing attached is recognized; I'll do some
digging to see if the config entries to make it work are available
anywhere but first going to see if the KZPCA will work.
We have U320 SCSI in an RX2660 but I can't remember if it has the older
riser cage (no PCIe slots). It's used for an external DAT160 tape
drive. They identify in CLUE CONFIG as "LSI Logic 1030 U320" and in
SHOW DEVICE/FULL as "HP LSI1030 Ultra320 SCSI." Looks like the part
number for the adapter was A7173A.
Rich Jordan
2020-09-25 22:12:26 UTC
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Post by Craig A. Berry
Post by Rich Jordan
John, turns out they provided an RX2660 instead of the 2800. It
has both types of PCI slots. I am going to try a U320 card we have
here, and if that isn't accepted try the KZPEA or KZPCA
U320 card not recognized by VMS; showed up in clue config as a
generic PK device but nothing attached is recognized; I'll do some
digging to see if the config entries to make it work are available
anywhere but first going to see if the KZPCA will work.
We have U320 SCSI in an RX2660 but I can't remember if it has the older
riser cage (no PCIe slots). It's used for an external DAT160 tape
drive. They identify in CLUE CONFIG as "LSI Logic 1030 U320" and in
SHOW DEVICE/FULL as "HP LSI1030 Ultra320 SCSI." Looks like the part
number for the adapter was A7173A.
The card that didn't work is not an HP variant as far as I can tell. Its a PC Adaptec 39160 dual channel card with AIC-7899G controller chip. Unfortunately someone unplugged the battery-free laptop I'd had on the console and lost my clue config output; I remember it mentioning the 7899 chip similar to an Alpha with a KZPEA, but lost the details.

However I was already plugging in a KZPCA card, and it is recognized and so is the attached tape drive. Running a test now. Unless its slower than the DS10 doing the copies I won't worry about trying to get the U320 card working (or get a working faster adapter).

I was rather hoping DEC and its descendants would not yank working configs out of the integrity's files.

Rich
Dave Froble
2020-09-24 00:21:32 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Well, what is your definition of "much less"?

I've got some 18 GB drives sitting here, more than I'll most likely ever
be able to use. The ones in use (knock on wood) just keep working. So
far I've had to swap out only 1 disk on the AlphaServer 800 I've been
running.

If you need one, let me know. David sent them to me for the cost of
shipping, I'd do the same.
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Rich Jordan
2020-09-25 15:08:43 UTC
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Post by Dave Froble
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Well, what is your definition of "much less"?
I've got some 18 GB drives sitting here, more than I'll most likely ever
be able to use. The ones in use (knock on wood) just keep working. So
far I've had to swap out only 1 disk on the AlphaServer 800 I've been
running.
If you need one, let me know. David sent them to me for the cost of
shipping, I'd do the same.
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
David
thanks but we will be OK either way. The Alpha has two available 73GB drives, the RX has a 73 and a 146 that we should be able to use for staging the data from tape.

Each tape holds about 25-28GB in five savesets. Initially we're bulk copying (I know, not recommended) but we expect to be provided a list of specific directory trees that will be restored to disk, then either re-backed up to savesets and ZIPped or else just ZIPped (using VMS INfoZIP) and transferred to PC formatted USB.

The more staging space we have the more quickly we can do the transfers. We might get a second tape drive if the possible 250-300 tapes to transfer materializes, and also the RX will perform the ZIPs much much faster than the 466Mhz Alpha could.

Rich
Camiel Vanderhoeven
2020-09-24 07:16:28 UTC
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We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
If your system is connected to a fibre channel SAN, you can put a SCSI tape drive behind an MDR or NSR and make them available to the RX2800 over the fibre channel fabric.

Camiel
Rod Regier
2020-09-24 16:40:54 UTC
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If you can't find a specifically supported controller, this would be my guess:
412911-B21 HP SC11Xe HBA/ No guarantee of OpenVMS driver support.

Non exclusive source:
https://www.harddrivesdirect.com/canada/product_info.php?products_id=457979

PCIe 4x on one side, U320 parallel SCSI on the other side.
Big issue might be finding something with a small enough adapter plate
to fit in the RX2800ix and still have a parallel SCSI connector.
Might have to run the RX2800 with the cover switch defeated and the cover upside down to
meet thermal spec.

The RX2800i2 Quickspec doesn't list any supported parallel SCSI controllers (big surprise :-).
That aspect would be equally applicable to the RX2800i4 and i6.
John H. Reinhardt
2020-09-24 17:14:30 UTC
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Post by Rod Regier
412911-B21 HP SC11Xe HBA/ No guarantee of OpenVMS driver support.
https://www.harddrivesdirect.com/canada/product_info.php?products_id=457979
PCIe 4x on one side, U320 parallel SCSI on the other side.
Big issue might be finding something with a small enough adapter plate
to fit in the RX2800ix and still have a parallel SCSI connector.
Might have to run the RX2800 with the cover switch defeated and the cover upside down to
meet thermal spec.
The RX2800i2 Quickspec doesn't list any supported parallel SCSI controllers (big surprise :-).
That aspect would be equally applicable to the RX2800i4 and i6.
If Ebay is acceptable the card is available from a place in Texas with the short (LP) adapter plate
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-412911-B21-SC11XE-SCSI-Ultra320-LVD-PCI-E-X4-HBA-w-Short-Bracket-439946-001/324108320109>

Further searching implies that it's an LSI Logic LSI20320IE card. I see no indications of support for it in the OpenVMS CONFIG.DAT file for V8.4-2L1 so it's not likely to be in the V8.3-1H1 file ether. There is an LSI Ultra320 board listed but it's called the "LSI Logic 1030 U320"

The HPE Specs do list the RX2800 i2 as supported but I'm going to guess that it's under HP-UX or Linux rather than OpenVMS.
<https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=emr_na-c00777216>
--
John H. Reinhardt
Steven Schweda
2020-09-24 17:26:12 UTC
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412911-B21 HP SC11Xe [...]
Knowing nothing, I'd be looking for the cheapest thing I could find
which says "LSI20320IE" on it. And then hoping that sys$pkmdriver.exe
could make sense of it. Possibly after adding a suitable entry in
SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT, with the actual vendor/device ID for the
card in hand. (Look for "LSI" in SYS$CONFIG.DAT.)

But, if a low-profile bracket is needed, then I might consider paying
slightly more for one of those.
David Turner
2020-10-03 22:32:17 UTC
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It must have the HP firmware and be rev 0C or higher !
Post by Steven Schweda
412911-B21 HP SC11Xe [...]
Knowing nothing, I'd be looking for the cheapest thing I could find
which says "LSI20320IE" on it. And then hoping that sys$pkmdriver.exe
could make sense of it. Possibly after adding a suitable entry in
SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT, with the actual vendor/device ID for the
card in hand. (Look for "LSI" in SYS$CONFIG.DAT.)
But, if a low-profile bracket is needed, then I might consider paying
slightly more for one of those.
Rich Jordan
2020-09-25 15:09:38 UTC
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Post by Camiel Vanderhoeven
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
If your system is connected to a fibre channel SAN, you can put a SCSI tape drive behind an MDR or NSR and make them available to the RX2800 over the fibre channel fabric.
Camiel
No fiber channel here. Just a shelved VMS box being brought back into service with a tape drive from our customer
Chris
2020-09-24 21:44:54 UTC
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Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.

Find out what cards are supported across VMS, determine chip set and
find such a card. Formal support may not matter if the chip set from
another card is supported. It's the OS support that matters, not always
the model number.

I got and M3000 working with usb keyboard, mouse and graphics working
that way, even though the M3000 has no usb keybourd i/o ports...

Chris
Craig A. Berry
2020-09-24 22:08:01 UTC
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Post by Chris
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading
in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring
(probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are
getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible
working drives become unobtainium.  It'll be easier to bulk copy USB
drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA
or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage
differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has
much less storage available.
Thanks
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.
That works except when it doesn't. I'm still annoyed by finding an
inexpensive card that was identical to a KZPCA except for the branding
and then discovering that there was a poison pill in the driver and VMS
would reject the device because it was not the DEC/Compaq-branded part.
Chris
2020-09-24 22:23:33 UTC
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Post by Chris
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for
loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring
(probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are
getting their archives into a more survivable format before
compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to
bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards
(KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus
variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has
much less storage available.
Thanks
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.
That works except when it doesn't. I'm still annoyed by finding an
inexpensive card that was identical to a KZPCA except for the branding
and then discovering that there was a poison pill in the driver and VMS
would reject the device because it was not the DEC/Compaq-branded part.
Agreed and the same goes for trying to use generic drives to replace
drives like the RD53 and RD54. Gave up on uVax before ever finding
out how to write the magic signature on such drives. So petty and
mean spirited.

Never had any trouble running Emulex etc in any of the Dec machines
here, PDP11 or Vax, so I doubt if it was an OS issue, though that
may have changed...

Chris
Chris Scheers
2020-09-25 07:43:56 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Chris
Post by Chris
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for
loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring
(probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are
getting their archives into a more survivable format before
compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to
bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards
(KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus
variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has
much less storage available.
Thanks
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.
That works except when it doesn't. I'm still annoyed by finding an
inexpensive card that was identical to a KZPCA except for the branding
and then discovering that there was a poison pill in the driver and VMS
would reject the device because it was not the DEC/Compaq-branded part.
Agreed and the same goes for trying to use generic drives to replace
drives like the RD53 and RD54. Gave up on uVax before ever finding
out how to write the magic signature on such drives. So petty and
mean spirited.
Never had any trouble running Emulex etc in any of the Dec machines
here, PDP11 or Vax, so I doubt if it was an OS issue, though that
may have changed...
I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

The RD53 (aka 1325D) is a Micropolis 1325 drive with a "zero ohm
resistor" added at R7. (That is, put a jumper between the R7 pads.)

The RD54 is an unmodified Maxtor 2190.

Both will format fine with an RQDX3 or a MicroVAX 2000.

If you want to use an arbitrary MFM drive, the MicroVAX 2000 can format
it, but I don't remember all the details right now.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.

Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: ***@applied-synergy.com
Fax: 817-237-3074
Steven Schweda
2020-09-25 16:34:58 UTC
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Permalink
[...] generic drives to replace
drives like the RD53 and RD54. Gave up on uVax before ever finding
out how to write the magic signature on such drives. So petty and
mean spirited.
Do you mean the fact that the "DIAG CUST" edition of the MicroVAX
Diagnostic Monitor (MDM) on TK50 wouldn't format a virgin generic RD
disk? The solution for that problem was to get a copy of the "DIAG
MAINT" edition of MDM, which was less fussy. (A helpful DEC service guy
loaned me one, once, upon a time long ago. When I returned it, he made
sure that I had made a working copy.)
Both will format fine with an RQDX3 or a MicroVAX 2000.
An RQDX3 with the "DIAG MAINT" edition of MDM, yes. The
MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 firmware, too, but buying a 2000 so that you
could save the cost premium of a DEC-provided disk for your mu-VAX II
was not a reasonable option until all such systems became junk.
Simon Clubley
2020-09-25 12:23:55 UTC
Reply
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Post by Craig A. Berry
Post by Chris
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.
That works except when it doesn't. I'm still annoyed by finding an
inexpensive card that was identical to a KZPCA except for the branding
and then discovering that there was a poison pill in the driver and VMS
would reject the device because it was not the DEC/Compaq-branded part.
The modern day version of epoxy resin... :-(

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.
Chris
2020-09-25 18:17:42 UTC
Reply
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Post by Chris
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for
loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring
(probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are
getting their archives into a more survivable format before
compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to
bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape
drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards
(KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus
variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has
much less storage available.
Thanks
Whay i've found with Sun kit is to look at the hardware compatability
list and if a given chip set is supported. Many other vendor's cards
will work if the chip set is the same. Intel Gb network cards,
sas and fibre channels boards etc, for example.
That works except when it doesn't. I'm still annoyed by finding an
inexpensive card that was identical to a KZPCA except for the branding
and then discovering that there was a poison pill in the driver and VMS
would reject the device because it was not the DEC/Compaq-branded part.
If the hardware really is identical, then there must be a eprom
or serial id prom onboard that you can reprogram with the code
from a real KZPCA, but you need at least one genuine card to
get started. Some Sun video cards can be hacked that way.

Not strictly legit, but reasonable solution for quick testing
purposes...

Chris
Steven Schweda
2020-09-25 20:54:43 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Chris
If the hardware really is identical, then there must be a eprom
or serial id prom onboard that you can reprogram with the code
from a real KZPCA, but you need at least one genuine card to
get started. [...]
And some way to do that "reprogram" operation.

The system start-up messages with an accepted card include:

%PKC0, Copyright (c) 1998 IntraServer Technology Inc. PKW V2.1.21 ROM V2.0
%PKC0, SCSI Chip is SYM53C895, Operating mode is LVD Ultra2 SCSI

(I haven't found a record of what happens with a non-accepted card.)

Knowing nothing (else), I always assumed that some mechanism was
created to ensure that IntraServer Technology Inc. got paid for that
driver, and that it involved a surcharge for the cards with the
special/secret key.
Chris
2020-09-25 22:40:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Schweda
Post by Chris
If the hardware really is identical, then there must be a eprom
or serial id prom onboard that you can reprogram with the code
from a real KZPCA, but you need at least one genuine card to
get started. [...]
And some way to do that "reprogram" operation.
%PKC0, Copyright (c) 1998 IntraServer Technology Inc. PKW V2.1.21 ROM V2.0
%PKC0, SCSI Chip is SYM53C895, Operating mode is LVD Ultra2 SCSI
(I haven't found a record of what happens with a non-accepted card.)
Knowing nothing (else), I always assumed that some mechanism was
created to ensure that IntraServer Technology Inc. got paid for that
driver, and that it involved a surcharge for the cards with the
special/secret key.
Not usually a secret key, but the boot up sequence would need to
probe and identify all the hardware to load the correct drivers, at
least under unix. Iirc, VMS was different for qbus and unibus,
with a utility to create the loaded option list, but it's been years.
Normally, somewhere in that prom would be an id string for the model
and firmware revision.

I wanted a working addon scsi card for the as500/400 here, but too
expensive at the time. Doubt if anyone would care now, as the kit has
been obsolete for years and the original vendor probably no longer
exists. If you can't buy new for that sort of reason, seems fair
use to hack to get it working, especially for amateur use. How else
do you restore obsolete machines ?.

Do embedded work here and have a variety of eprom and prom
programming kit, so no problem in theory...

Chris
Craig A. Berry
2020-09-26 00:53:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steven Schweda
Post by Chris
If the hardware really is identical, then there must be a eprom
or serial id prom onboard that you can reprogram with the code
from a real KZPCA, but you need at least one genuine card to
get started. [...]
And some way to do that "reprogram" operation.
%PKC0, Copyright (c) 1998 IntraServer Technology Inc. PKW V2.1.21 ROM V2.0
%PKC0, SCSI Chip is SYM53C895, Operating mode is LVD Ultra2 SCSI
(I haven't found a record of what happens with a non-accepted card.)
"ROM Checksum read error" apparently:

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/c/8Zs2JvJDijY/m/VgkHtYSinuAJ>
Post by Steven Schweda
Knowing nothing (else), I always assumed that some mechanism was
created to ensure that IntraServer Technology Inc. got paid for that
driver, and that it involved a surcharge for the cards with the
special/secret key.
Rich Jordan
2020-09-28 14:25:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rich Jordan
We have an RX2800 (VMS V8.3-1H1) that we would like to use for loading in data from tapes, then ZIPping the results and transferring (probably via PC) to USB drive for a customer; basically they are getting their archives into a more survivable format before compatible working drives become unobtainium. It'll be easier to bulk copy USB drives for safety and redundancy.
The RX doesn't currently have a SCSI interface card for our SCSI tape drives (LVD/SE); does anyone know if the Alpha compatible cards (KZPCA or KZPEA) will work (wondering about PCI bus variations/voltage differences).
If they don't work then the Alpha will have to do the work but it has much less storage available.
Thanks
To everyone, thanks for the info and discussion.

A genuine KZPCA card did work in the RX2660, but the actual data retrieval was no faster than the Alphaserver with a KZPEA card. I _might_ try swapping the KZPEA in but that's my personal card for my home Alpha.

I suspect its the tape drive that is the bottleneck so I don't expect to actually gain much if any time if I do the controller swap. If the disks had been bottlenecking, the significantly faster SAS drives on the Integrity would have helped performance.


Rich
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