Discussion:
http://www.vmspython.org/
Add Reply
Jan-Erik Söderholm
2021-10-26 15:03:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Hi.

Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
that port would not be available any more. And VSI
only has IA64 versions of Python...

Jan-Erik.
Arne Vajhøj
2021-11-02 23:21:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
that port would not be available any more. And VSI
only has IA64 versions of Python...
Replying to myself, and for anyone interested...
JFP has shut down his site with his Python port for Alpha (and IA64).
When asked, he sent me an explanation for this that I can understand.
We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.

Arne
Lawrence D’Oliveiro
2021-11-02 23:48:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.
An open-source project does not measure its success by the number of passive users, but by the level of active contributions from the community.

Too often I see this attitude from people looking on open-source software as being no different from proprietary products from big companies. The most common symptom of this is when they complain about claimed deficiencies in the product, without stepping forward to offer fixes. Or sponsoring someone who can make those fixes.
Jan-Erik Söderholm
2021-11-02 23:48:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Can't reach http://www.vmspython.org/ at the moment.
Does anyone know what's up here? It would be sad if
that port would not be available any more. And VSI
only has IA64 versions of Python...
Replying to myself, and for anyone interested...
JFP has shut down his site with his Python port for Alpha (and IA64).
When asked, he sent me an explanation for this that I can understand.
We can make a guess: after spending 15 years or more maintaining this
for the mostly ungrateful users he has changed his priorities.
The reply from JFP was not pointing against the users.
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Arne
Arne Vajhøj
2021-11-03 01:56:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Yes.

I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.

Arne
Arne Vajhøj
2021-11-03 02:01:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Yes.
I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.
Looks like it still is.

https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms

Arne
Lawrence D’Oliveiro
2021-11-03 03:45:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
Expired certificate!

Shouldn’t happen with Let’s Encrypt ...
Jan-Erik Söderholm
2021-11-03 07:11:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Yes.
I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.
Looks like it still is.
https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
Arne
OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.

I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
but it was not an easy task...
Arne Vajhøj
2021-11-03 13:00:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Yes.
I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.
Looks like it still is.
https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.
I could get in with FF.
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
but it was not an easy task...
True.

Lot of code.

Lot of disk space to build.

Lot CPU time and wall time to build.

Arne
Dave Froble
2021-11-03 15:12:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Post by Arne Vajhøj
I have also sent a question to VSI asking what their view is on
Python for Alpha.
And as I said, just if anyone is interested in Python on Alpha...
I believe the source code is available so anyone that want should be
able to build from source.
What source? The sources for the JFP port and all the components?
Yes.
I do not recall any details but I believe the source was
available.
Looks like it still is.
https://foss.vmsgenerations.org/openvms
OK, right, on that site. I get an SEC_ERROR_EXPIRED_CERTIFICATE.
And for some reason not the usual button to bypass that error.
I could get in with FF.
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
I looked some years ago to setup the build environment for Alpha,
but it was not an easy task...
True.
Lot of code.
Define "lots" ..
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Lot of disk space to build.
Disk space is cheap.

Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt
Name Status Count Label Space Count Cnt
ITANIC$DKB0: Mounted 0 I64SYS 133.46GB 255 1
ITANIC$DKB1: Mounted 0 DISK1 132.78GB 1 1
ITANIC$DKB2: Mounted 0 DISK2 136.69GB 1 1
ITANIC$DKB3: Online 0

Need more than that?
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Lot CPU time and wall time to build.
Define "lots" ..
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Arne
But, I'm assuming C, and I don't do C.

Perhaps I could make the resources available ???
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Paul Anderson
2021-11-03 16:15:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
ITANIC$DKB0:            Mounted              0 I64SYS         133.46GB
;-)
Robert A. Brooks
2021-11-03 16:16:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
(note that Jan-Erik is looking for Alpha not Itanium - VSI offer
Python for Itanium)
The DECUServe system (eisner.decus.org) would be a fine place for
that work to be done.
--
-- Rob
Lawrence D’Oliveiro
2021-11-10 06:50:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...
They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility issues <https://wiki.vmssoftware.com/VMS_Python_compatibility_issues>:

    The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets

Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...
Vitaly Pustovetov
2021-11-10 07:08:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D’Oliveiro
The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...
We have already added support for pipes, mailboxes, etc. to the CRTL's poll. This was done when porting Postgres. But it will probably help Python after installing a new version of the CRTL.
Arne Vajhøj
2021-11-10 13:09:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D’Oliveiro
... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...
    The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...
Note that it is not a Python issue but a CRTL/VMS issue.

Arne
Lawrence D’Oliveiro
2021-11-10 21:20:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arne Vajhøj
Post by Lawrence D’Oliveiro
... VSI offer Python for Itanium ...
They even have a beta of 3.10, which impresses me. But, looking at the compatibility
The functions select() and poll() work only with sockets
Kind of like Microsoft Windows ...
Note that it is not a Python issue but a CRTL/VMS issue.
It’s an OS issue on Windows, too.

Loading...