Discussion:
strange delete command
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Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-22 20:12:56 UTC
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At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end of
the code section is the line

$ dele mda0:[testing]..*

This syntax doesn't work for me (on older versions on Alpha):

dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found

Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-22 21:15:22 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end
of the code section is the line
$ dele mda0:[testing]..*
dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
Could you explain why you think that message indicates a non-working
DELETE command?

Because the DELETE command worked as expected per that error message
you've posted, though the file mda0:[testing].. was not found on your
system.

I'll assume your confusion here is the second dot in the filename.

That version syntax goes back to ~1978 or so, and the DCL Standard
syntax (DEC loved its standards) was intended to be common across
VAX/VMS, RSX-11, RSTS, RT, and TOPS.

It's been documented approximately forever, too.

Per some 2001-era Compaq OpenVMS doc "A version component begins with a
semicolon (;) or a period (.) (When the system displays file
specifications, it displays a semicolon for the version component.)"
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-22 21:21:07 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Because the DELETE command worked as expected per that error message
you've posted, though the file mda0:[testing].. was not found on your
system.
Or DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*, as you've specified it here.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-22 21:36:57 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end
of the code section is the line
$ dele mda0:[testing]..*
dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
Could you explain why you think that message indicates a non-working
DELETE command?
I should have quoted more from the web page. Before that, a .COM was
copied to the directory.
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Because the DELETE command worked as expected per that error message
you've posted, though the file mda0:[testing].. was not found on your
system.
I'll assume your confusion here is the second dot in the filename.
No.
Post by Stephen Hoffman
That version syntax goes back to ~1978 or so, and the DCL Standard
syntax (DEC loved its standards) was intended to be common across
VAX/VMS, RSX-11, RSTS, RT, and TOPS.
It's been documented approximately forever, too.
Per some 2001-era Compaq OpenVMS doc "A version component begins with a
semicolon (;) or a period (.) (When the system displays file
specifications, it displays a semicolon for the version component.)"
Right, but that's not the issue here. Take a look at the web page.
Jan-Erik Söderholm
2020-09-22 21:42:58 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end
of the code section is the line
$ dele mda0:[testing]..*
dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
Could you explain why you think that message indicates a non-working
DELETE command?
I should have quoted more from the web page. Before that, a .COM was
copied to the directory.
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Because the DELETE command worked as expected per that error message
you've posted, though the file mda0:[testing].. was not found on your
system.
I'll assume your confusion here is the second dot in the filename.
No.
Post by Stephen Hoffman
That version syntax goes back to ~1978 or so, and the DCL Standard
syntax (DEC loved its standards) was intended to be common across
VAX/VMS, RSX-11, RSTS, RT, and TOPS.
It's been documented approximately forever, too.
Per some 2001-era Compaq OpenVMS doc "A version component begins with a
semicolon (;) or a period (.) (When the system displays file
specifications, it displays a semicolon for the version component.)"
Right, but that's not the issue here. Take a look at the web page.
Doesn't work here either.

$ d/tot disk1:<testing>

Directory $1$DGA3610:<TESTING>

Total of 85 files, 5642/9724 blocks.

$ d/tot disk1:<testing>..*
%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found

$ dele disk1:<testing>..*
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for $1$DGA3610:<TESTING>.;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found

Just a bunch of <something>.COM files, as in the example.

ODS2/ODS5?
Extended parsing?
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-22 22:13:00 UTC
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Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Doesn't work here either.
Ah, I see what's being referenced Yeah, busted example posted. Or the
parsing rules have changed. I was looking at the DELETE (which is
perfectly valid), and not at the directory population code above.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-23 06:47:36 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Doesn't work here either.
Ah, I see what's being referenced Yeah, busted example posted. Or the
parsing rules have changed. I was looking at the DELETE (which is
perfectly valid), and not at the directory population code above.
Right. While . might be the default for DIRECTORY, I hope that that
isn't the new default for DELETE. :-(
Simon Clubley
2020-09-23 12:17:30 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Doesn't work here either.
Ah, I see what's being referenced Yeah, busted example posted. Or the
parsing rules have changed. I was looking at the DELETE (which is
perfectly valid), and not at the directory population code above.
Right. While . might be the default for DIRECTORY, I hope that that
isn't the new default for DELETE. :-(
Changing the defaults for DELETE on x86-64 is the only way I see that
example as working as posted. I hope that's an error in the port and
not an intended change. Even in Unix land, you have to specify a
wildcard character sequence to match a set of files.

BTW, you need to allow Javascript for the site before you can see the
example output on the website...

Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-23 14:03:18 UTC
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Post by Simon Clubley
Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Stephen Hoffman
Ah, I see what's being referenced Yeah, busted example posted. Or the
parsing rules have changed. I was looking at the DELETE (which is
perfectly valid), and not at the directory population code above.
Right. While . might be the default for DIRECTORY, I hope that that
isn't the new default for DELETE. :-(
Changing the defaults for DELETE on x86-64 is the only way I see that
example as working as posted. I hope that's an error in the port and
not an intended change. Even in Unix land, you have to specify a
wildcard character sequence to match a set of files.
Hopefully it's just a cut-and-paste typo. :-|
Dave Froble
2020-09-23 00:28:24 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end of
the code section is the line
$ dele mda0:[testing]..*
dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
Actually, don't know about the ODS5 filenames.

Using the ..* specifies a wildcard for versions, but you didn't specify
any filenames or extensions, and "nothing" is not a wildcard.

So, you asked for blank filename and extension and any version. Is that
what you intended?
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-23 01:09:50 UTC
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Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
It works. It's less than fun to get that file created because of the
filename defaulting and I've usually seen it only with C shenanigans
involved, but I've met cases with that filename present in the file
system.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-23 06:49:34 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
It works. It's less than fun to get that file created because of the
filename defaulting and I've usually seen it only with C shenanigans
involved, but I've met cases with that filename present in the file
system.
Yes, the file can be created, but the web page makes it looks like that
DELETE command can delete *.COM;*.

To create such a file:

MAIL> extract .
Stephen Hoffman
2020-09-23 17:01:36 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
...It's less than fun to get that file created because of the filename
defaulting and I've usually seen it only with C shenanigans involved...
...
MAIL> extract .
MAIL is written in C.
--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-24 08:32:50 UTC
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Post by Stephen Hoffman
Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Post by Dave Froble
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
...It's less than fun to get that file created because of the filename
defaulting and I've usually seen it only with C shenanigans involved...
...
MAIL> extract .
MAIL is written in C.
It is now. Wasn't in BLISS in the past? (I remember some discussion of
bugs here---I think that some were found by me---after the rewrite.)
Didn't this also work with the BLISS version?

Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2020-09-23 06:48:09 UTC
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Post by Dave Froble
Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
At https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/ towards the end of
the code section is the line
$ dele mda0:[testing]..*
dele/log DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA]..*/conf
%DELETE-W-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for DISK$SCRATCH:[BLABLABLA].;*
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found
Some cut-and-paste mistake, or some strange new syntax?
I'm not sure that that would ever work, on any version of VMS.
Actually, don't know about the ODS5 filenames.
Using the ..* specifies a wildcard for versions, but you didn't specify
any filenames or extensions, and "nothing" is not a wildcard.
So, you asked for blank filename and extension and any version. Is that
what you intended?
Not me, the example on the VSI webpage.
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