XENIX VAX / PDP

["Supratim Sanyal]

Hi all,

Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

TIA
Supratim

[Arne Vajhøj]

Was there a XENIX release available from  Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix claims it ran on PDP-11.

Arne

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Was there a XENIX release available from  Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix claims it ran on PDP-11.

Xenix was really just a v7 port with extra bugs added.

What would be the point? You could get real v7 or 2.x BSD.
--scott

["Supratim Sanyal]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Was there a XENIX release available from  Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix claims it ran on PDP-11.
Arne

Yes and someone looked for it in 2010, but looks like drew a blank. A
tape etc. may have surfaced in the 9 years since, hence asking.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?19786-Wanted-PDP-or-VAX-Xenix

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by "Supratim Sanyal

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Was there a XENIX release available from  Microsoft (or maybe SCO)
for VAX or PDP ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix claims it ran on PDP-11.

Yes and someone looked for it in 2010, but looks like drew a blank. A
tape etc. may have surfaced in the 9 years since, hence asking.
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?19786-Wanted-PDP-or-VAX-Xenix

You are not just interested in knowing that it existed - you
want the product?

Well - it was not open source, so you will need to find
someone that can provide both media and sell you a license.

Based on what I can read on Wikipedia it seems most likely
that the Xenix rights moved:

Microsoft -> SCO/Santa Cruz -> Caldera/SCO -> UnXis/Xinous

But something else could have happened with Xenix as it
must have been too small to be public mentioned in various deals.

Arne

["Supratim Sanyal]

Post by Arne Vajhøj
Microsoft -> SCO/Santa Cruz -> Caldera/SCO -> UnXis/Xinous

Huh! Had no idea "UnXis was formed when the operating assets of The SCO
Group, which had been in bankruptcy for several years, were acquired in
a public auction in April 2011 by Stephen L. Norris and a Middle East
private equity group for the price of $600,000." (Wikipedia)

I sent an "enquiry" via www.xinuos.com; not expecting much since it
looks like they moved to FreeBSD.

Other than porting WinNT to Alpha, I think this is the only time
Microsoft actually spent effort on DEC hardware (unless they also
developed Pathworks for OS/2 which is another item that cannot be found
anywhere so far).

Guess this thread has to sleep here for now.

Thanks, Arne.


- Supratim

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Arne Vajhøj
You are not just interested in knowing that it existed - you
want the product?
Well - it was not open source, so you will need to find
someone that can provide both media and sell you a license.

SCO currently owns the rights to traditional AT&T Unix and most
derivatives and they have something like a hobbyist program that
will allow you to get a source code license for older Unix versions
free for noncommercial use.

Finding the media is the hard part.

On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.
--scott

["Supratim Sanyal]

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.
--scott

Yes, thanks Scott - I am planning to do that anyway irrespective of how
the search for xenix goes.

/supratim

["Supratim Sanyal]

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.
--scott

gunkies wiki worked perfectly. Who are T B London and J F Reiser?

also a note: The Simh binary package in FreeBSD repo is an old one with
the "KERNAL" trap bug.

all good, thanks again.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <qmq4ac$2v4$***@dont-email.me>,
Supratim Sanyal <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by "Supratim Sanyal

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.

gunkies wiki worked perfectly. Who are T B London and J F Reiser?

Who is gunkie?

Tom London and John Reiser were the guys at Berkeley who did most of
the conversion of v7 to V/32 and 32-bittified Unix. I believe that Tom
started the Berkeley tradition of putting haiku into source code comments.
--scott

[Scott Dorsey]

Supratim Sanyal <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by Scott Dorsey
Supratim Sanyal <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by "Supratim Sanyal

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.

gunkies wiki worked perfectly. Who are T B London and J F Reiser?

Who is gunkie?

No idea, but I followed this: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_32v_on_SIMH

32v is not v7. A lot of changes were necessary to extend the word length.
The software tools kit is mostly the same but the kernel has a lot of
changes to run on the vax.

Post by Scott Dorsey
Tom London and John Reiser were the guys at Berkeley who did most of
the conversion of v7 to V/32 and 32-bittified Unix. I believe that Tom
started the Berkeley tradition of putting haiku into source code comments.

Fascinating stuff! BTW as you know doubt must be aware of, I also
chanced upon a x86 port by Robert Nordier: http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/#

Not really. I know there were a few other attempts to port v7 to toy
computers but none of them were as successful as Xenix. Hell, you could
buy a computer running Xenix at Radio Shack of all places. "You've got
questions, we've got blank stares."
--scott

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by Scott Dorsey
Supratim Sanyal <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by Scott Dorsey
Supratim Sanyal <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by "Supratim Sanyal

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.

gunkies wiki worked perfectly. Who are T B London and J F Reiser?

Who is gunkie?

No idea, but I followed this: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_32v_on_SIMH

32v is not v7. A lot of changes were necessary to extend the word length.
The software tools kit is mostly the same but the kernel has a lot of
changes to run on the vax.

Post by Scott Dorsey
Tom London and John Reiser were the guys at Berkeley who did most of
the conversion of v7 to V/32 and 32-bittified Unix. I believe that Tom
started the Berkeley tradition of putting haiku into source code comments.

Fascinating stuff! BTW as you know doubt must be aware of, I also
chanced upon a x86 port by Robert Nordier: http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/#

Not really. I know there were a few other attempts to port v7 to toy
computers but none of them were as successful as Xenix. Hell, you could
buy a computer running Xenix at Radio Shack of all places. "You've got
questions, we've got blank stares."
--scott

I don't think Xenix was derived from v7 as much as from SYS-III.

bill

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Supratim Sanyal  <\"supratim sanyal"

Supratim Sanyal  <\"supratim sanyal"

Post by "Supratim Sanyal

Post by Scott Dorsey
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.

gunkies wiki worked perfectly. Who are T B London and J F Reiser?

Who is gunkie?

http://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_32v_on_SIMH

32v is not v7.  A lot of changes were necessary to extend the word
length.
The software tools kit is mostly the same but the kernel has a lot of
changes to run on the vax.

Tom London and John Reiser were the guys at Berkeley who did most of
the conversion of v7 to V/32 and 32-bittified Unix.  I believe that Tom
started the Berkeley tradition of putting haiku into source code comments.

Fascinating stuff! BTW as you know doubt must be aware of, I also
http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/#

Not really.  I know there were a few other attempts to port v7 to toy
computers but none of them were as successful as Xenix.  Hell, you could
buy a computer running Xenix at Radio Shack of all places.  "You've got
questions, we've got blank stares."

I don't think Xenix was derived from v7 as much as from SYS-III.

It would require a look at the code to see what is actually were.

But it was sold as being based on Version 7.

The Wikipedia article has a link to Computerworld 1981 with the
text "The ... Xenix operating system, an enhanced version of Western
Electric's Unix Version 7 developed under its license by Microsoft Inc.,
is ...".

Arne

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Not really.  I know there were a few other attempts to port v7 to toy
computers but none of them were as successful as Xenix.  Hell, you could
buy a computer running Xenix at Radio Shack of all places.  "You've got
questions, we've got blank stares."

I don't think Xenix was derived from v7 as much as from SYS-III.

It would require a look at the code to see what is actually were.
But it was sold as being based on Version 7.
The Wikipedia article has a link to Computerworld 1981 with the
text "The ... Xenix operating system, an enhanced version of Western
Electric's Unix Version 7 developed under its license by Microsoft Inc.,
is ...".

I don't know about later versions of Xenix, but the earlier versions that
I saw on systems like the Altos did not have named pipes or uname. I
would consider those two things to be the major differences between v7
and the 16-bit version of System III. There were a lot of changes in
process scheduling too but I don't know what happened where on that.

Maybe later versions of Xenix implemented these features. I would not be
surprised. SCO was very active in development for a while before they
let the lawyers take over. So I would not be surprised if they implemented
a lot of System IIIisms later in their life.
--scott

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Bill Gunshannon

Not really.  I know there were a few other attempts to port v7 to toy
computers but none of them were as successful as Xenix.  Hell, you could
buy a computer running Xenix at Radio Shack of all places.  "You've got
questions, we've got blank stares."

I don't think Xenix was derived from v7 as much as from SYS-III.

It would require a look at the code to see what is actually were.
But it was sold as being based on Version 7.
The Wikipedia article has a link to Computerworld 1981 with the
text "The ... Xenix operating system, an enhanced version of Western
Electric's Unix Version 7 developed under its license by Microsoft Inc.,
is ...".

I don't know about later versions of Xenix, but the earlier versions that
I saw on systems like the Altos did not have named pipes or uname. I
would consider those two things to be the major differences between v7
and the 16-bit version of System III. There were a lot of changes in
process scheduling too but I don't know what happened where on that.
Maybe later versions of Xenix implemented these features. I would not be
surprised. SCO was very active in development for a while before they
let the lawyers take over. So I would not be surprised if they implemented
a lot of System IIIisms later in their life.
--scott

I had (and worked professionally) with Tandy 16's and 6000's.
Their version of Xenix was definitely more SYS-III than v7.
At least as far as the programming interface went.

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Arne Vajhøj
You are not just interested in knowing that it existed - you
want the product?
Well - it was not open source, so you will need to find
someone that can provide both media and sell you a license.

SCO currently owns the rights to traditional AT&T Unix and most
derivatives and they have something like a hobbyist program that
will allow you to get a source code license for older Unix versions
free for noncommercial use.
Finding the media is the hard part.
On the other hand you could just run v7 and get all the good parts
of Xenix without all the bad ones.
--scott

You can always run Ultrix-11 on the PDP-11.

Or BSD 2.11 if you want something more modern.
And Net or Open BSD on the VAX.

bill

["Supratim Sanyal]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Was there a XENIX release available from  Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix claims it ran on PDP-11.
Arne

Yes. And someone looked for it in 2010, but looks like drew a blank. A
tape etc. may have surfaced in the 9 years since, hence asking ...

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?19786-Wanted-PDP-or-VAX-Xenix

[Terry Kennedy]

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

Definitely yes for PDP. When I was at Lifeboat Associates we had a PDP-11/34 (with the "programmer's console) which ran it. The whole thing (hardware and software) came from Microsoft - the idea was to allow developers to have access so they could port / create new versions of the software they had written for CP/M. As I recall, it didn't really get used a lot - but I was in a different group (OEM development, doing CP/M implementations for companies like Datapoint).

[Bob Koehler]

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

i was told Xenix would run on my Pro350, which is a PDP-11.

[Robert A. Brooks]

Post by Bob Koehler

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

i was told Xenix would run on my Pro350, which is a PDP-11.

Was that Xenix, or Venturcom's Venix?

[Bob Koehler]

Post by Robert A. Brooks

Post by Bob Koehler

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?

i was told Xenix would run on my Pro350, which is a PDP-11.

Was that Xenix, or Venturcom's Venix?

It was Xenix in the message I got.

[f***@wortner.com]

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?
TIA
Supratim

I just happened to stumble across this question months after Supratim asked it. ;-)


The answer -- from personal experience -- is yes, there was a PDP-11 distribution of Xenix from Microsoft. I remember running it on a PDP-11/23 many years ago. It was based on V7 and included additional support for DEC hardware that the original V7 did not. The updates included the ability to regenerate the kernel without source code, support for peripherals beyond those provided by Bell Labs -- in my case, RL01 and RL02 disks -- and an emulation of split instruction and data space for machines like the 11/23. (In fact, the program that created these special executables was called "23fix.") I remember a set of instructions printed on a line printer. The banner page mentioned that it was produced on the "Microsoft Heating Plant." :-) In terms of features, it might have been similar to DEC's V7M.

While I don't hold out much hope of finding it, I *might* have a copy of the line printed documentation. There's an even smaller chance that I might have the mag tape.

[Rich Alderson]

Post by f***@wortner.com

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for
VAX or PDP ?
TIA
Supratim

I just happened to stumble across this question months after Supratim asked it. ;-)
The answer -- from personal experience -- is yes, there was a PDP-11
distribution of Xenix from Microsoft. I remember running it on a PDP-11/23
many years ago. It was based on V7 and included additional support for DEC
hardware that the original V7 did not. The updates included the ability to
regenerate the kernel without source code, support for peripherals beyond
those provided by Bell Labs -- in my case, RL01 and RL02 disks -- and an
emulation of split instruction and data space for machines like the 11/23.
(In fact, the program that created these special executables was called
"23fix.") I remember a set of instructions printed on a line printer. The
banner page mentioned that it was produced on the "Microsoft Heating Plant."
:-) In terms of features, it might have been similar to DEC's V7M.
While I don't hold out much hope of finding it, I *might* have a copy of the
line printed documentation. There's an even smaller chance that I might have
the mag tape.

If you do find either, Al Kossow at CHM (nee Computer History Museum) in
Mountain View, California, would see that they get worldwide distribution.
Living Computers: Museum + Labs in Seattle, Washington, would make sure that Al
got copies, if they came here instead.

DISCLAIMER: I have worked for LCM+L since July, 2003, when it was just the
private collection of Paul Allen. He was the #1 proponent of Unix from
Microsoft in the early 1980s; XENIX was the result.

[tuklusan]

On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 8:37:34 AM UTC-4, Supratim Sanyal <"supr=

Post by "Supratim Sanyal
Hi all,
=20
Was there a XENIX release available from Microsoft (or maybe SCO) for=20
VAX or PDP ?
=20
TIA
Supratim

I just happened to stumble across this question months after Supratim asked=
it. ;-)
The answer -- from personal experience -- is yes, there was a PDP-11 distri=
bution of Xenix from Microsoft. I remember running it on a PDP-11/23 many =
years ago. It was based on V7 and included additional support for DEC hard=
ware that the original V7 did not. The updates included the ability to reg=
enerate the kernel without source code, support for peripherals beyond thos=
e provided by Bell Labs -- in my case, RL01 and RL02 disks -- and an emulat=
ion of split instruction and data space for machines like the 11/23. (In f=
act, the program that created these special executables was called "23fix."=
) I remember a set of instructions printed on a line printer. The banner =
page mentioned that it was produced on the "Microsoft Heating Plant." :-) =
In terms of features, it might have been similar to DEC's V7M.
While I don't hold out much hope of finding it, I *might* have a copy of th=
e line printed documentation. There's an even smaller chance that I might =
have the mag tape.

Awesome, Frank. If only ... :)
Antenna up, staying tuned!

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