Mike Lynch not guilty of defrauding HP

[Simon Clubley]

[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]

The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.

https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

It was a pleasant and unexpected surprise seeing a US court (and in SF
as well!) actually believe a UK citizen over a US company.

Simon.

[Robert A. Brooks]

Post by Simon Clubley
[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]
The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/
I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.

However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Robert A. Brooks

Post by Simon Clubley
[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]
The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/
I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.
However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

I don't think there will be any impact.

According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.

Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.

Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
convicted and served 5 years.

Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
he was involved in product development and product sales
but not in financial reports.

HPE is probably only interested in the civil case and
the compensation amount.

Arne

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Robert A. Brooks

Post by Simon Clubley
[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]
The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/
I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.
However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

I don't think there will be any impact.
According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.
Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.

I wonder if there is now a case for an appeal or a major reduction in
the amount of penalty that needs to be paid.

Post by Arne Vajhøj
Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
convicted and served 5 years.

Likewise.

Post by Arne Vajhøj
Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
he was involved in product development and product sales
but not in financial reports.

The fact these prior two cases exist make me even more surprised about
the not guilty verdict in this case. Regardless of how you look at it,
it was _very_ clear that HP did not do their homework when deciding whether
to buy Autonomy which made the guilty verdicts in the first two cases
even more surprising.

Simon.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Simon Clubley

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Robert A. Brooks

Post by Simon Clubley
[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]
The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/
I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.
However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

I don't think there will be any impact.
According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.
Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.

I wonder if there is now a case for an appeal or a major reduction in
the amount of penalty that needs to be paid.

Post by Arne Vajhøj
Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
convicted and served 5 years.

Likewise.

Post by Arne Vajhøj
Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
he was involved in product development and product sales
but not in financial reports.

The fact these prior two cases exist make me even more surprised about
the not guilty verdict in this case. Regardless of how you look at it,
it was _very_ clear that HP did not do their homework when deciding whether
to buy Autonomy which made the guilty verdicts in the first two cases
even more surprising.

I think the 3 cases had very different questions to answer:

Is is proven that Autonomy provided false information to HP before the deal?

Is is proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Autonomy CFO knew the
information was false?

Is is proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Autonomy CEO knew the
information was false?

3 different courts said: YES, YES and NO.

Nothing inconsistent in that.

If the main reason behind the CEO's acquittal was that the jury
believed there was reasonable doubt about how much he knew about
the company's accounting practices, then the verdict means
nothing for the two other trials.

+++

And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
seller is a good argument for that false information does
not mean fraud.

Arne

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Arne Vajhøj
And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
seller is a good argument for that false information does
not mean fraud.

A buyer has a duty to evaluate whether the information they are
being told is correct or not. HP clearly did not carry out this
process to the standards required and expected. In fact, wasn't
one of the senior HP employees who actively warned about buying
Autonomy either moved aside by HP or just ignored ?

Simon.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Simon Clubley

Post by Arne Vajhøj
And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
seller is a good argument for that false information does
not mean fraud.

A buyer has a duty to evaluate whether the information they are
being told is correct or not.

They should, but that does not make it legal to provide
false information.

If one lie in financial documents to a buyer, a bank or the
tax authorities then it is fraud and one can be put in jail.

That they could check the information does not make
it non-fraud.

Post by Simon Clubley
HP clearly did not carry out this
process to the standards required and expected. In fact, wasn't
one of the senior HP employees who actively warned about buying
Autonomy either moved aside by HP or just ignored ?

HP has acknowledged that.

They did a write off of 8.8 B$.

And they want 4 B$ as compensation.

price paid - actual value = 8.8 B$
and
value per books - actual value = 4.0 B$
=>
price paid - value per books = 4.8 B$

If my math is correct then HP has already admitted that
they overpaid 4.8 B$.

And if the 4.0 B$ get reduced then the math becomes
worse.

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Arne Vajhøj

Post by Robert A. Brooks

Post by Simon Clubley
[This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
mentioned it yet.]
The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
been found not guilty of all charges.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/
I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.
However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

I don't think there will be any impact.
According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.
Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.
Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
convicted and served 5 years.
Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
he was involved in product development and product sales
but not in financial reports.
HPE is probably only interested in the civil case and
the compensation amount.

And now Mike Lynch is dead and HPE need to decide
whether to go after the estate (and grieving widow)
for the 4 B$.

https://fortune.com/europe/2024/08/27/hp-dilemma-mike-lynch-family-4-billion-claim/

Arne

[Simon Clubley]

Post by Arne Vajhøj
And now Mike Lynch is dead and HPE need to decide
whether to go after the estate (and grieving widow)
for the 4 B$.
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/08/27/hp-dilemma-mike-lynch-family-4-billion-claim/
Arne

IMHO, that would be an incredibly stupid thing for HPE to do and
will likely result in a massive backlash, especially here in the UK.

When he was acquitted in the US, a common view here in the UK was
that he had been wrongly sent to the US by our previous government
and that an innocent man had prevailed against the US government.

In addition to this, there is now also a lot of additional sympathy
for him and the other people lost on the yacht especially since stories
have emerged that there should have been enough time to save them if
the yacht had been secured properly and the crew had done certain things.

Of course, we don't know the truth of those stories until Italy has
completed its investigation, but that is most certainly a currently
common feeling in the UK, especially since Italy now has multiple
crew members under investigation.

Simon.

[Arne Vajhøj]

Post by Simon Clubley

Post by Arne Vajhøj
And now Mike Lynch is dead and HPE need to decide
whether to go after the estate (and grieving widow)
for the 4 B$.
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/08/27/hp-dilemma-mike-lynch-family-4-billion-claim/

IMHO, that would be an incredibly stupid thing for HPE to do and
will likely result in a massive backlash, especially here in the UK.
When he was acquitted in the US, a common view here in the UK was
that he had been wrongly sent to the US by our previous government
and that an innocent man had prevailed against the US government.
In addition to this, there is now also a lot of additional sympathy
for him and the other people lost on the yacht especially since stories
have emerged that there should have been enough time to save them if
the yacht had been secured properly and the crew had done certain things.
Of course, we don't know the truth of those stories until Italy has
completed its investigation, but that is most certainly a currently
common feeling in the UK, especially since Italy now has multiple
crew members under investigation.

It will sure be bad PR.

But 4 B$ is a lot of money.

On the other side if various reports are correct then
he was only 1 B$ worth when he died.

So the real number is:

1 B$ - gigantic legal cost - monetary value of serious bad PR in UK

They could decide to close the case and move on.

Arne

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Simon Clubley
IMHO, that would be an incredibly stupid thing for HPE to do and
will likely result in a massive backlash, especially here in the UK.

This is true, but HPE has a long history of doing incredibly stupid
things that have caused massive backlashes.
--scott