A cry for help

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love potions" spam, please let me know.
Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades
--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g. https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Martin Rushton

2023-10-23 10:55:43 UTC

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g. https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15 years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters or blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(

Dave Froble

2023-10-23 14:17:34 UTC

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g. https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Yes, it is regrettable.

But how many such posts are you seeing? I'm using Eternal September, and it is
an occasional thing. I just keep hitting the NEXT button until past the posts.
I just refuse to let it bother me. Sometimes the filter in your head is the
most effective.

DON'T LET THE BASTARDS WIN !!!!

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Simon Clubley

2023-10-24 12:14:00 UTC

Post by Dave Froble
But how many such posts are you seeing? I'm using Eternal September, and it is
an occasional thing. I just keep hitting the NEXT button until past the posts.
I just refuse to let it bother me. Sometimes the filter in your head is the
most effective.

If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.

comp.terminals is now getting hammered as well.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Andy Burns

2023-10-24 12:32:18 UTC

Post by Simon Clubley
If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.

Some groups were getting a new spam thread per minute.

Johnny Billquist

2023-10-24 16:01:14 UTC

If you look at Google Groups, there appears to be well over 100 messages
a day, each in its own thread, so that's well over 100 spam threads a day.
comp.terminals is now getting hammered as well.

alt.folklore.computers as well. :(
So yeah. It's a fairly spread plague.

Johnny

Jay E. Morris

2023-10-24 18:04:01 UTC

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
potions" spam, please let me know.
Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
VMS after something like three decades
--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters or
blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(

Yes, it is regrettable.
But how many such posts are you seeing? I'm using Eternal September,
and it is an occasional thing. I just keep hitting the NEXT button
until past the posts. I just refuse to let it bother me. Sometimes the
filter in your head is the most effective.
DON'T LET THE BASTARDS WIN !!!!

Also using ES and seeing very little spam. Over on es.support there's a
big discussion going on about the spam. Ray has implemented spam
assassin and is getting a lot of help refining the filters. A 24 hour
block on google groups (I forget why) is also helping.

Michael S

2023-10-24 12:44:45 UTC

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
potions" spam, please let me know. Otherwise I am going to have
to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like
three decades -- No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters
or blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(

If access through one of "traditional" USENET providers is not an
option, e.g. due to corporate policies, then the second best solution
right now appears to be reading through well-filtered site
https://www.novabbs.com/devel/thread.php?group=comp.os.vms
Then, if you want to post, you can switch back to Google Groups.

Jan-Erik Söderholm

2023-10-24 12:51:29 UTC

Post by Michael S
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
potions" spam, please let me know. Otherwise I am going to have
to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like
three decades -- No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Yes it's a nuisance. Other forums are available. e.g.
https://forum.vmssoftware.com/index.php

Having only recently come back to a public newsgroup after 10 or 15
years, it's frustrating that there doesn't appear to be any filters
or blocking mechanism. This c**p wrecks any useful conversation. :-(

Kind of "works".
The main problem I see is that it cannot only display "unread" posts.
Thunderbird has no problem filtering them out.

Arne Vajhøj

2023-10-23 11:23:13 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?

I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.

Arne

Simon Clubley

2023-10-23 12:14:05 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.
But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.

Eternal September is the overall best approach at the moment, but
it does sometimes remove genuine posts as spam. It has done that
to some of Jake's posts, for example.

Now, the bigger question is what is the point of this spam and
why is comp.os.vms being hit ? If you look at comp.lang.ada using
Google Groups, there's nothing in there, but there's lots of
different spam (than what's appearing here) in comp.lang.c.

What is the actual motivation for the person posting this ?
After all, who actually believes the contents of the spam ?

IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
point of the current spam contents ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Chris Townley

2023-10-23 13:19:32 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.
But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.

Eternal September is the overall best approach at the moment, but
it does sometimes remove genuine posts as spam. It has done that
to some of Jake's posts, for example.
Now, the bigger question is what is the point of this spam and
why is comp.os.vms being hit ? If you look at comp.lang.ada using
Google Groups, there's nothing in there, but there's lots of
different spam (than what's appearing here) in comp.lang.c.
What is the actual motivation for the person posting this ?
After all, who actually believes the contents of the spam ?
IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
point of the current spam contents ?
Simon.

comp.lang.ada is fairly low volume, but there are regular posts.

Only problem I have with Eternal September is that the current very high
level seems to confuse Thunderbird, so I see valid headers, but have to
close and reopen a few times to get the messages

--
Chris

Martin Rushton

2023-10-23 13:36:07 UTC

Just a word of warning about Thunderbird. About a year ago they suddenly removed the ability to read mbox-type messages coming from the system. Having to run a Dovecot system just to pass on a few logs would have been a right royal pain. I moved over to Evolution, but that doesn't appear to support newsgroups.

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-23 16:42:51 UTC

Just a word of warning about Thunderbird. About a year ago they
suddenly removed the ability to read mbox-type messages coming from
the system. Having to run a Dovecot system just to pass on a few
logs would have been a right royal pain. I moved over to Evolution,
but that doesn't appear to support newsgroups.

Hmm, I must be dreaming because I'm using Evolution to read c.o.v right
now.

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Robert A. Brooks

2023-10-23 13:40:10 UTC

Post by Chris Townley
Only problem I have with Eternal September is that the current very
high level seems to confuse Thunderbird, so I see valid headers, but
have to close and reopen a few times to get the messages

Yeah, I've been seeing that for a couple of months; it's a mostly-recent problem,
I think.

--
-- Rob

bill

2023-10-23 14:35:52 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.
But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.

What is the point of any spam?

Post by Simon Clubley
why is comp.os.vms being hit ? If you look at comp.lang.ada using
Google Groups, there's nothing in there, but there's lots of
different spam (than what's appearing here) in comp.lang.c.

They seem to be moving from one group to another. Mine started in
comp.lang.cobol but once the server figured it out and started killing
most of them before they went anywhere they moved. Now in c.o.v but
I expect not for long.

The newest version of Thunderbird doesn't appear to have filtering
capabilities any more (or at least not in an easily discovered
method) so I may have to go back to Knews for reading USENET.

Post by Simon Clubley
What is the actual motivation for the person posting this ?
After all, who actually believes the contents of the spam ?

What's the motivation of any asshole.

Post by Simon Clubley
IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
point of the current spam contents ?

Apparently to test how incompetent most news server admins are today.

If all the other servers would just drop google groups this crap would
just go away.

bill

Mark Daniel

2023-10-23 15:19:55 UTC

8< snip 8<

Post by bill
The newest version of Thunderbird doesn't appear to have filtering
capabilities any more (or at least not in an easily discovered
method) so I may have to go back to Knews for reading USENET.

You can open a message, right-click (or double tap if using a pad) on
the "From" in the header panel, select "Create Filter From..." from the
popup menu, uncheck "[ ]Manually Run" and hit [OK] button.

You get a "Message Filters" popup listing all the current filters, hit
the [Run Now] button at the bottom. Voila! Gone and also gone
automatically from thereon.

Bit tedious and a little whack-a-mole but seems to work. Compound
filters can be built if so inclined but the basic few clicks seem to
work well enough. I've only needed to (re)discover this mechanism over
the last week or two.

(Now I just have to [Delete] and "Confirm [OK]" the 'From is:
***@gmail.com' filter from the "Message Filters" popup :-)

8< snip 8<

Post by bill
bill

--
Anyone, who using social-media, forms an opinion regarding anything
other than the relative cuteness of this or that puppy-dog, needs
seriously to examine their critical thinking.

Mark Daniel

2023-11-19 02:03:53 UTC

8< snip 8<

You can open a message, right-click (or double tap if using a pad) on
the "From" in the header panel, select "Create Filter From..." from the
popup menu, uncheck "[ ]Manually Run" and hit [OK] button.
You get a "Message Filters" popup listing all the current filters, hit
the [Run Now] button at the bottom. Voila! Gone and also gone
automatically from thereon.
Bit tedious and a little whack-a-mole but seems to work. Compound
filters can be built if so inclined but the basic few clicks seem to
work well enough. I've only needed to (re)discover this mechanism over
the last week or two.
8< snip 8<

Post by bill
bill

Well of course this got unmanageable and very tedious very quickly,
making nuke-a-mole the only option. For Thunderbird...

Created a filter "match all of the following" with "From contains
@gmail.com" + "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".

There is a significant risk of nuking a friendly mole but desperate
times... Ensure you have added the likes of ***@gmail and
turner.gmail, etc. to insulate as many inoffensive gmail posters as
necessary. I also only [x]Manually Run after casting my eye over the
spam (if not too great a quantity).

PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers such as
Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been *very* useful with
"contains gmail.com" parameters but I couldn't get it to work (and the
few posts a search engine could muster suggested that was the long-time
consensus). Pity.

/A pox on the houses of all spammers. Make that two poxes./

--
Anyone, who using social-media, forms an opinion regarding anything
other than the relative cuteness of this or that puppy-dog, needs
seriously to examine their critical thinking.

Andy Burns

2023-11-19 09:52:04 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Created a filter "match all of the following" with "From contains
@gmail.com" + "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".

That's too strong a filter, it will kill posts from people who just
happen to have a google email address, but don't post from google groups.

Better to filter on "message-id contains @googlegroups.com"

Dave Froble

2023-11-19 17:39:49 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
+ "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".

That's too strong a filter, it will kill posts from people who just happen to
have a google email address, but don't post from google groups.

I'm not sure of what you write. At least in Thunderbird, the filter can be
solely on c.o.v, or newsgroups in general, and would not affect your inbound
e-mail. So, yeah, perhaps one would not get posts from a poster with a gmail
email account, not really sure.

Guess the question is, just how important is c.o.v posts, vs, do you like all
the spam? I chose to avoid the spam.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Scott Dorsey

2023-11-19 19:01:44 UTC

Post by Dave Froble

Post by Mark Daniel
+ "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".

That's too strong a filter, it will kill posts from people who just happen to
have a google email address, but don't post from google groups.

Most newsreaders are better-designed than that, and allow you to filter on
all kinds of header or even body text, using general expressions. It is very
common for people to set up killfiles based upon message-ids or the user-agent
file in order to dump Google spam.

Post by Dave Froble
Guess the question is, just how important is c.o.v posts, vs, do you like all
the spam? I chose to avoid the spam.

Yes, but best to lose as few non-spam posts as possible. Triggering on
message-id or user-agent will have far fewer side effects than dumping
posts from anyone using google email for return addresses.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Henry Crun

2023-11-19 19:35:29 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
+ "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".

That's too strong a filter, it will kill posts from people who just happen to
have a google email address, but don't post from google groups.

<...snipped...>
The Thunderbird filter can be set on c.o.v. specifically, and does not affect email
(or even other NNTP groups)
So if a legitimate poster is posting from gmail to c.o.v. I'll miss it. I can live with that.

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message. Recommended reading:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Andy Burns

2023-11-19 19:43:15 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
So if a legitimate poster is posting from gmail to c.o.v. I'll miss it.
I can live with that.

Quite a lot of well-known c.o.v posters happen to have gmail.com
addresses, even though thy don't use google groups, it's no more work to
filter only those who *do* use google groups.

Scott Dorsey

2023-11-19 20:42:37 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
The Thunderbird filter can be set on c.o.v. specifically, and does not affect email
(or even other NNTP groups)
So if a legitimate poster is posting from gmail to c.o.v. I'll miss it. I can live with that.

There is no such thing as "posting from gmail."

The original poster was talking about filtering on the From: line. So if
a user is posting from a legitimate non-google server, but using a gmail
email address for return, then their message will be dropped. This is not
good behaviour. Many people use gmail, and it is not the source of the
spam problem.

The correct solution is to filter on the Message-ID line or the User-Agent
field so that only postings from google groups are rejected.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Fred. Zwarts

2023-11-19 10:22:36 UTC

8< snip 8<

You can open a message, right-click (or double tap if using a pad) on
the "From" in the header panel, select "Create Filter From..." from
the popup menu, uncheck "[ ]Manually Run" and hit [OK] button.
You get a "Message Filters" popup listing all the current filters, hit
the [Run Now] button at the bottom. Voila! Gone and also gone
automatically from thereon.
Bit tedious and a little whack-a-mole but seems to work. Compound
filters can be built if so inclined but the basic few clicks seem to
work well enough. I've only needed to (re)discover this mechanism
over the last week or two.
8< snip 8<

Post by bill
bill

Well of course this got unmanageable and very tedious very quickly,
making nuke-a-mole the only option. For Thunderbird...
Created a filter "match all of the following" with "From contains
@gmail.com" + "From isn't in my address book" then perform "Delete message".
There is a significant risk of nuking a friendly mole but desperate
turner.gmail, etc. to insulate as many inoffensive gmail posters as
necessary. I also only [x]Manually Run after casting my eye over the
spam (if not too great a quantity).
PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers such as
Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been *very* useful with
"contains gmail.com" parameters but I couldn't get it to work (and the
few posts a search engine could muster suggested that was the long-time
consensus). Pity.

For me

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

Andy Burns

2023-11-19 10:45:28 UTC

For me Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com works
very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

I works, but "injection-info" isn't among the header fields returned by
the LIST OVERVIEW.FMT command while "message-id" is included, so the
filtering can happen sooner in the process and with fewer fetches from
the server.

Mark Daniel

2023-11-19 11:28:07 UTC

8< snip 8<

Post by Mark Daniel
PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers such as
Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been *very* useful with
"contains gmail.com" parameters but I couldn't get it to work (and the
few posts a search engine could muster suggested that was the
long-time consensus). Pity.

For me

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.

Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.

Much less of a sledgehammer.

--
Anyone, who using social-media, forms an opinion regarding anything
other than the relative cuteness of this or that puppy-dog, needs
seriously to examine their critical thinking.

Robert A. Brooks

2023-11-19 14:19:17 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

--
--- Rob

Dave Froble

2023-11-19 17:46:58 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

There was a recent post mentioning that the Eternal-September moderator had
disconnected from google groups until he could figure out spam assassin, or
something like that. So for now, it might be reasonable to not see the spam.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: ***@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

Andy Burns

2023-11-19 19:22:44 UTC

Post by Dave Froble
There was a recent post mentioning that the Eternal-September moderator
had disconnected from google groups until he could figure out spam
assassin, or something like that. So for now, it might be reasonable to
not see the spam.

He blocked google groups completely for one day, over three weeks ago,
as the server was being overwhelmed by the spam, it's back to filtering
spam now, rather than blocking google groups

Simon Clubley

2023-11-20 13:20:43 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal September
and they are currently doing the filtering on your behalf.

Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that have
wrongly been classified as spam.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Neil Rieck

2023-11-23 12:34:16 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal September
and they are currently doing the filtering on your behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that have
wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of cov
Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this is how they control throttling (like posts per minute).
I have sent a note to google asking how to change these settings
If the settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create a new group titled comp.os.openvms

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

Michael S

2023-11-23 22:45:56 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal September
and they are currently doing the filtering on your behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that have
wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of cov
Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this is how they control throttling (like posts per minute).
I have sent a note to google asking how to change these settings
If the settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create a new group titled comp.os.openvms
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

comp.os.vms is not a Google group. It is a Usenet group that can be accessed,
apart from other means, via Google's web portal.
Usenet does not have a notion of group membership.

Neil Rieck

2023-11-24 11:57:11 UTC

Post by Michael S

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal September
and they are currently doing the filtering on your behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that have
wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of cov
Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this is how they control throttling (like posts per minute).
I have sent a note to google asking how to change these settings
If the settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create a new group titled comp.os.openvms
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

comp.os.vms is not a Google group. It is a Usenet group that can be accessed,
apart from other means, via Google's web portal.
Usenet does not have a notion of group membership.

Then I wonder who set the privacy settings for comp.os.linux (gets SPAM but is tiny by comparison to comp.os.vms) because clicking "about" on comp.os.linux reveals that anyone posting there must have a google account.

On a related note, we could create a new group called comp.os.openvms then set the privacy settings to be more restirctive.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

Michael S

2023-11-24 13:36:38 UTC

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal September
and they are currently doing the filtering on your behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that have
wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of cov
Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this is how they control throttling (like posts per minute).
I have sent a note to google asking how to change these settings
If the settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create a new group titled comp.os.openvms
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

comp.os.vms is not a Google group. It is a Usenet group that can be accessed,
apart from other means, via Google's web portal.
Usenet does not have a notion of group membership.

Then I wonder who set the privacy settings for comp.os.linux (gets SPAM but is tiny by comparison to comp.os.vms) because clicking "about" on comp.os.linux reveals that anyone posting there must have a google account.
On a related note, we could create a new group called comp.os.openvms then set the privacy settings to be more restirctive.
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

Test. Posted via Google Groups.

Michael S

2023-11-19 14:30:53 UTC

On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:58:07 +1030

8< snip 8<

Post by Mark Daniel
PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers such
as Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been *very*
useful with "contains gmail.com" parameters but I couldn't get it
to work (and the few posts a search engine could muster suggested
that was the long-time consensus). Pity.

For me

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

I wonder why so many people here are trying to re-invent a wheel with
very expected consequences of their wheels being square instead of
leaving filtering to professional.
What prevents people from following an advice of Retro Guy?
What he proposes works. It works well. And it's far easier than setting
up your own filter.

Mark Daniel

2023-11-19 17:20:07 UTC

Post by Michael S
On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:58:07 +1030

8< snip 8<

Post by Mark Daniel
PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers such
as Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been *very*
useful with "contains gmail.com" parameters but I couldn't get it
to work (and the few posts a search engine could muster suggested
that was the long-time consensus). Pity.

For me

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

I guess it is a matter of; having a pretty elementary setup for reading
just c.o.v. which worked without any attention for years until just
recently... Folk are trying to massage what they have already in place
and now this advice from Fred seems to address the immediate issue.

The wheels are (now) roughly circular. Spoke-spanner back in the toolkit.

Kudos to Usenet feeds that have this under control. Mine does not.

Prepared to give it a go but doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence
downloading from a source that has a server cert expired 35 days ago
(https://osdn.dl.osdn.net/sylpheed/).

Might stay with my tack-hammer a little longer but will keep these in mind.

PS. My mail provider uses Process Software PMAS which works well-enough.
Occasionally I need to go hunting for an expected email and have
noticed the majority of spam to my account originates from gmail. While
claiming 99.9% of spam does not reach gmail recipients the same effort
should be applied to gmail spam origination. There I go again; pissing
in the wind.

--
Anyone, who using social-media, forms an opinion regarding anything
other than the relative cuteness of this or that puppy-dog, needs
seriously to examine their critical thinking.

Michael S

2023-11-20 00:11:41 UTC

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 03:50:07 +1030

Post by Michael S
On Sun, 19 Nov 2023 21:58:07 +1030

8< snip 8<

Post by Mark Daniel
PS. Thunderbird says it supports "Customize"d message headers
such as Injection-Info and User-Agent which would have been
*very* useful with "contains gmail.com" parameters but I
couldn't get it to work (and the few posts a search engine could
muster suggested that was the long-time consensus). Pity.

For me

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

I wonder why so many people here are trying to re-invent a wheel
with very expected consequences of their wheels being square
instead of leaving filtering to professional.
What prevents people from following an advice of Retro Guy?
What he proposes works. It works well. And it's far easier than
setting up your own filter.

Sylpheed is not a part of his advice that I had in mind. May be, it's
superb, but like you, I found the lack of recent updates suspect.
Personally, I went with Sylpheed's child named Clows-Mail, but I am
sure that many other clients work too. The only one I found unusable
was Thunderbird. But even that is just my personal bias.

I meant the part where he suggests to access c.o.v via news.i2pn2.org.
He manages this server and so far appears to deal with recent wave
(flood) of spam better than anybody else.
BTW, it costs nothing.

Post by Mark Daniel
Might stay with my tack-hammer a little longer but will keep these in mind.
PS. My mail provider uses Process Software PMAS which works
well-enough. Occasionally I need to go hunting for an expected email
and have noticed the majority of spam to my account originates from
gmail. While claiming 99.9% of spam does not reach gmail recipients
the same effort should be applied to gmail spam origination. There I
go again; pissing in the wind.

Andy Burns

2023-10-24 10:53:33 UTC

Post by bill
The newest version of Thunderbird doesn't appear to have filtering
capabilities any more (or at least not in an easily discovered
method)

Thunderbird doesn't have the best filtering, but it's plenty good enough
to kill all google goups posts stone dead.

Tools/Message Filters
then either select a particular group, or select a whole news server
click [new] and give it a name like "kill google"
apply filter when, tick [getting new mail] untick other options
match [all of the following]
[message-id] contains "@googlegroups.com"
perform these actions [mark as read]
ok, close.

Yes there may be collateral damage, you can whitelist anyone you know
that posts via google groups (to my mind, there's no excuse for anyone
who knows VMS to resort to using a web interface) those people should
use a proper client, free or cheap servers are available, otherwise
expect their messages will be getting very few eyeballs.

Stephen Hoffman

2023-10-23 16:40:22 UTC

Eternal September is the overall best approach at the moment, but it
does sometimes remove genuine posts as spam. It has done that to some
of Jake's posts, for example.

Jake's disappeared yes, and Eternal September filtering is removing
other posts including at least one by John Reagan.

IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
point of the current spam contents ?

It's could well be a botnet command and control channel, or a covert
communications channel for espionage; some sort of modern-day numbers
station. Who knows?

--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

Hein RMS van den Heuvel

2023-10-26 15:29:57 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with VMS after something like three decades

For the serious technical stuff there is https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ [HP - ITRC is useless], but for the watercooler editor/terminal/java rants - where does one go?

Post by Henry Crun
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

hundreds just today.

Now, the bigger question is what is the point of THIS spam and
why is COMP.OS.VMS being hit ?

My uppercase - these spams are to recognizable as spam, total nonsense, that it is more of a DOS attack.
Why would anyone be remotely tempted to read/click any of the those messages.

IOW, get-rich-quick schemes _may_ have some takers, but what's the
point of the current spam contents ?

Yup, and that why here question.

It's all gotten too cheap and too easy, we have to re-introduce a penny, or two per SMS, WhatsApp, Phone-call and Email.
It'll be much more quiet real quick.
I'll gladly pay my dollar/euro/pound per day for my contributions, and have the nonsense (and worse: thefts for the gullible) disappear.

Hein.

John Dallman

2023-10-26 22:09:00 UTC

My uppercase - these spams are too recognizable as spam, total
nonsense, that it is more of a DOS attack. Why would anyone
be remotely tempted to read/click any of the those messages.

You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
these days.

I think it's an attempt to use Usenet for Google search spamming. They
put their intended keywords into Google Groups a lot, along with the URLs
they're trying to promote. When someone searches for the keyword, they'll
get lots of hits that include the URLs, which may fool dumb searchers
(especially AI "helpers") into thinking the URLs are relevant.

John

Hein RMS van den Heuvel

2023-10-27 11:55:43 UTC

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 6:09:15 PM UTC-4, John Dallman wrote:
:
Another 180 came in overnight (USA)

Post by John Dallman
You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
these days.

Agreed.

Post by John Dallman
I think it's an attempt to use Usenet for Google search spamming. They
put their intended keywords into Google Groups a lot, along with the URLs
they're trying to promote. When someone searches for the keyword, they'll
get lots of hits that include the URLs, which may fool dumb searchers
(especially AI "helpers") into thinking the URLs are relevant.

I like that explanation.
If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create bad/skewed search results.

Hein.

bill

2023-10-27 13:09:19 UTC

Post by Hein RMS van den Heuvel
Another 180 came in overnight (USA)

Post by John Dallman
You can be sure that the spammers are not actually targeting the readers
of the newsgroups they're spamming. Usenet users are a tiny minority
these days.

Agreed.

I like that explanation.
If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create bad/skewed search results.

Considering that Google skews their results anyway....

I still say the solution is for the people who provide Google's
connection to USENET to drop them. When I was a major server in
USENET all of the connections I got had rules and if you violated
them they dropped you. One of those rules was SPAM control.

bill

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-27 17:47:30 UTC

Post by Hein RMS van den Heuvel
I like that explanation.
If true, then Google should be concerned as it makes them create
bad/skewed search results.

Considering that Google skews their results anyway....
I still say the solution is for the people who provide Google's
connection to USENET to drop them. When I was a major server in
USENET all of the connections I got had rules and if you violated
them they dropped you. One of those rules was SPAM control.

IAWTP.

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Jan-Erik Söderholm

2023-10-23 12:24:59 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.
But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.
Arne

Agree. I use Eternal September and I saw the complaints on the
spam posts way earliern then the actual spam...

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-23 12:28:52 UTC

Post by Arne VajhÃ¸j
How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

It's f**king Google who's letting the spam through. They seem content
to let anyone post any old shite to the newsgroups through their
servers. People have reached out to Google but noone's stepped up. At
this point I think they should just shut down their googlegroups and
let the grown-ups kick the spammers out OR resume their job of weeding
out this shite.

The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Johnny Billquist

2023-10-23 13:48:01 UTC

Post by Arne VajhÃ¸j
How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

It's f**king Google who's letting the spam through. They seem content
to let anyone post any old shite to the newsgroups through their
servers. People have reached out to Google but noone's stepped up. At
this point I think they should just shut down their googlegroups and
let the grown-ups kick the spammers out OR resume their job of weeding
out this shite.
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

I'm not sure if you understand how news works... There is no centralized
control. Google can't stop anything. They can at most prevent users
reading this through their servers from seeing it, but they cannot do
anything about users getting their newsfeed from somewhere else.

Johnny

bill

2023-10-23 14:42:58 UTC

Post by Arne VajhÃ¸j
How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

It's f**king Google who's letting the spam through. They seem content
to let anyone post any old shite to the newsgroups through their
servers. People have reached out to Google but noone's stepped up. At
this point I think they should just shut down their googlegroups and
let the grown-ups kick the spammers out OR resume their job of weeding
out this shite.
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

They can when you look at the messages and see they originate on
google groups. And all with gmail accounts. A totally in house
problem.

bill

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-23 16:44:22 UTC

Post by bill
They can when you look at the messages and see they originate on
google groups. And all with gmail accounts. A totally in house
problem.

Exactly! They dropped this pile of <animal> dung upon the rest of us!

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-23 16:44:53 UTC

Post by Single Stage to Orbit
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

I'm not sure if you understand how news works... There is no
centralized control. Google can't stop anything. They can at most
prevent users reading this through their servers from seeing it, but
they cannot do anything about users getting their newsfeed from
somewhere else.

The spammers are sending their <animal> shite through Google!

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Johnny Billquist

2023-10-24 10:14:59 UTC

Post by Single Stage to Orbit
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

I'm not sure if you understand how news works... There is no
centralized control. Google can't stop anything. They can at most
prevent users reading this through their servers from seeing it, but
they cannot do anything about users getting their newsfeed from
somewhere else.

The spammers are sending their <animal> shite through Google!

Sure. That's an easy ingress path, but if not through there, it could be
through a gazillion other ways. And sometimes are.
I guess the diminish of news in general, making Google the most common
gateway in makes it look more like a Google problem maybe.

Johnny

bill

2023-10-23 14:41:22 UTC

Post by Arne VajhÃ¸j
How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.

It's f**king Google who's letting the spam through. They seem content
to let anyone post any old shite to the newsgroups through their
servers. People have reached out to Google but noone's stepped up. At
this point I think they should just shut down their googlegroups and
let the grown-ups kick the spammers out OR resume their job of weeding
out this shite.
The cynic/conspiracy theorist in me reckons this is Google's plot to
destroy newsgroups.

How do we convince the admins at all the other USENET servers
to just stop accepting from or forwarding to google groups?
Problem solved.

bill

bill

2023-10-23 14:26:10 UTC

How to you read c.o.v/I-V?
I see tons of spam if I read Google Groups via browser.
But if I read news.eternal-september.org via a newsreader,
then very little spam.

All this crap is coming from google groups.

bill

Johnny Billquist

2023-10-23 12:07:42 UTC

Depending on your news reader... There used to be a kill filter
functionality in them, so you could get rid of specific users or topics.

That's where the "plonk" comes into the picture as well, if you are
familiar with the term.

Johnny

Henry Crun

2023-10-23 12:57:03 UTC

Depending on your news reader... There used to be a kill filter functionality in them, so you could get rid of specific
users or topics.
That's where the "plonk" comes into the picture as well, if you are familiar with the term.
Johnny

I already have five or six plonks for various 'From' and/or 'Subject': astrologer, Love, love, Magic etc. etc
Some of the spam arrives with non-ASCI fields, or purposely mis-spelled.
Quite a few vanish if I run "Delete expired posts" , but lately there have been some very active threads on comp.os.vms
and having to sort manually through several dozen posts gets boring and I would like to make it automatic.
So no help, then... Sorry I asked.

Mike

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Simon Clubley

2023-10-23 13:00:18 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
So no help, then... Sorry I asked.

What is stopping you from using a newsreader and Eternel September ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Simon Clubley

2023-10-23 13:02:40 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
So no help, then... Sorry I asked.

What is stopping you from using a newsreader and Eternel September ?

Just checked your headers and you are using Thunderbird.

What is stopping you from switching to Eternal September ?

See:

https://www.eternal-september.org/

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Henry Crun

2023-10-23 13:02:47 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
So no help, then... Sorry I asked.

What is stopping you from using a newsreader and Eternel September ?
Simon.

I guess that's my next step

Thanks

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Johnny Billquist

2023-10-23 13:54:33 UTC

Post by Henry Crun

Depending on your news reader... There used to be a kill filter
functionality in them, so you could get rid of specific users or topics.
That's where the "plonk" comes into the picture as well, if you are
familiar with the term.
Johnny

astrologer, Love, love, Magic etc. etc
Some of the spam arrives with non-ASCI fields, or purposely mis-spelled.
Quite a few vanish if I run "Delete expired posts" , but lately there
have been some very active threads on comp.os.vms and having to sort
manually through several dozen posts gets boring and I would like to
make it automatic.

Yeah. There have been an explosion in the last week or two.
But yeah, nothing auomatic about kill filters, no.

But again - this depends on what news reader you use, as well as where
you are getting your feed from.

Post by Henry Crun
So no help, then... Sorry I asked.

No reason to excuse yourself. I'm bothered by these posts as well. I was
trying to help, based on the minimal information you gave.

Others have suggested eternal september, which is a solution that tries
to deal with this by having your newsfeed filter for you.

Manual kill filters was my initial suggestion. As you use Thunderbird, I
don't think there is anything easy to suggest. The automatic spam
handling in Thunderbird do not seem to be able to be used for news. :-(

Johnny

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-10-26 11:39:58 UTC

I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
filter expressions possible...

No learning on the fly alas, but building a fortress of filters is
practical, with a bit of ongoing maintenance.

Memo to Self: Read the manual more often!

Single Stage to Orbit

2023-10-26 12:17:11 UTC

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
potions" spam, please let me know.
Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
VMS after something like three decades
--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D

--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-10-29 21:45:06 UTC

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:17:11 +0100, Single Stage to Orbit

Post by Henry Crun
If anyone has a remedy for the slew oc 'Black Magic' and 'Love
potions" spam, please let me know.
Otherwise I am going to have to -- unwillingly -- lose contact with
VMS after something like three decades
--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D

Yep, I am very fond of it, it's been my constant companion with
comp.os.vms, since forever-ish.

Unfortunately, development has stalled since 2014, and with the SPAM
deluge, a nice new feature would be the ability to bulk select SPAM
posts, and to be able to automatically generate efficient kill filter
regexp rules, and update existing rules, to deal with new SPAM
patterns.

Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
colloquy signal intregrity.

I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
solutions out there.

Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
stalled since 2014, sadly.

https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/

After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
kill filter, and carry on.

Such is Internet life

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-10-29 22:18:13 UTC

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:45:06 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta

Post by Subcommandante XDelta
On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 13:17:11 +0100, Single Stage to Orbit

Post by Single Stage to Orbit
Forte Agent. Been years since I last used that. Good memories :-D

Yep, I am very fond of it, it's been my constant companion with
comp.os.vms, since forever-ish.
Unfortunately, development has stalled since 2014, and with the SPAM
deluge, a nice new feature would be the ability to bulk select SPAM
posts, and to be able to automatically generate efficient kill filter
regexp rules, and update existing rules, to deal with new SPAM
patterns.
Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
colloquy signal intregrity.
I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
solutions out there.
Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
stalled since 2014, sadly.
https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/
After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
kill filter, and carry on.
Such is Internet life

I meant to add, that Forte Agent may well be behaved, running under
CodeWeavers CrossOver, on GNU/Linux, macOS, and, recently,
ChromeOS(!):

https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover

https://www.forteinc.com/agent/

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-11-02 21:27:15 UTC

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 09:18:13 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta

Post by Subcommandante XDelta
Given the very domain specific conversation on comp.os.vms, bathwater
babies should be minimal as collateral damage to the comp.os.vms
colloquy signal intregrity.
I imagine in the GNU/Linux world, there are plenty of clever clog
solutions out there.
Though for windows, it's pretty much Forte Agent, AFAIK, and for maOS,
it used to be Panic Unison, though development of it, has apparently
stalled since 2014, sadly.
https://panic.com/blog/the-future-of-unison/
After a flurry of kill filter rule building, the new normal, in the
morning, is incrementally tweak the rule set with some new patterns,
kill filter, and carry on.
Such is Internet life

I meant to add, that Forte Agent may well be behaved, running under
CodeWeavers CrossOver, on GNU/Linux, macOS, and, recently,
https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover
https://www.forteinc.com/agent/

Alas, the O.G., year dot, Forte Agent is "museum ware", it has not
been under active development since 2014, and although the developer
website is fully functional, you cannot succesfully purchase a copy,
and the developers are non-responsive, unfortunately - I imagine the
website is kept going out of pride and respect for a solid newsreader
with a long history.

Refer to alt.binaries.warez, should you need such a windows newsreader
with adequate kill filtering sub-systems, to eke out a dignified and
functional life on comp.os.vms, these days.

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-10-26 12:37:24 UTC

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 22:39:58 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta

I commiserate, well, this spam crisis has finally induced an IPL 31
RTFM event, for my Forte Agent newreader client, and I was pleasantly
surprised by the regexp sophistication, elegance, and versatility of
filter expressions possible...
No learning on the fly alas, but building a fortress of filters is
practical, with a bit of ongoing maintenance.
Memo to Self: Read the manual more often!

Neil Rieck

2023-10-28 14:21:38 UTC

Not sure if this will help, but every time I visit: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms/ with a browser, I will grab the first message in a block, then mark it as SPAM then jump to the next block. I usually do this 3-times every visit.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

Neil Rieck

2023-11-04 09:53:05 UTC

It is now Saturday morning and I was preparing to write a python program which would scan "https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms", detect trigger phrases, then mark the message as SPAM.

That's when I noticed that the google nerds had added a tool that I just noticed:
(1) display a page of 30 messages
(2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)
(3) click on the icon containing a circled exclamation (a dialog will pop up)
(4) SPAM will usually be selected by default so click the button "submit report"

I have no idea if/when google's algorithms will kick in to stop this ridiculous non-sense at the source BUT I am hoping that if multiple visitors of this newsgroup do the same as me, then this activity will set off a few alarms somewhere.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

Volker Halle

2023-11-04 10:24:43 UTC

Post by Neil Rieck
(1) display a page of 30 messages
(2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)

Neil,

it's even easier than that: click on the 'Select all' square and it will select all 30 messages displayed. You should have checked before, if all 30 messages look like spam - judging from the message title.

Volker.

Neil Rieck

2023-11-04 10:24:47 UTC

[...snip...]
Even better, click the top checkbox to select all 30 items
The scan the one-liners unclicking the one or two you wish to keep

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

Michael S

2023-11-24 13:58:09 UTC

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 2:34:18 PM UTC+2, Neil Rieck

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go
figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam
posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal
September and they are currently doing the filtering on your
behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that
have wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they
appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of
cov Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to
have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this
is how they control throttling (like posts per minute). I have
sent a note to google asking how to change these settings If the
settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create
a new group titled comp.os.openvms
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

comp.os.vms is not a Google group. It is a Usenet group that can be
accessed, apart from other means, via Google's web portal.
Usenet does not have a notion of group membership.

Then I wonder who set the privacy settings for comp.os.linux (gets
SPAM but is tiny by comparison to comp.os.vms) because clicking
"about" on comp.os.linux reveals that anyone posting there must have
a google account.
On a related note, we could create a new group called comp.os.openvms
then set the privacy settings to be more restirctive. Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

I am afraid that Usenet has no more notion of 'privacy settings' than
it has of membership.
Usenet groups are either moderated or they are not. There is no
middle ground. And making a group moderated is too big hammer which is
obviously impractical in case of this particular group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

BTW, right now Eternal September server drops all comp.os.vms messages
originated at Google Groups. Among other things it means that
approximately half of comp.os.vms community do not see your recent
posts.

Andy Burns

2023-11-24 14:04:18 UTC

Post by Michael S
right now Eternal September server drops all comp.os.vms messages
originated at Google Groups.

Are you sure?

Ray had to do that for one day when the server was overwhelmed, he seems
very determined to not use such a blunt measure, and it should only be
dropping messages scoring as spam by his rules.

Michael S

2023-11-24 14:27:00 UTC

On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 14:04:18 +0000

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Michael S
right now Eternal September server drops all comp.os.vms messages
originated at Google Groups.

Are you sure?

Yes, I am.
Neil Rieck continues to post via GG. You can see his posts on GG or on
novabbs.
https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=comp.os.vms
You can't see his posts on E-S.

Post by Andy Burns
Ray had to do that for one day when the server was overwhelmed, he
seems very determined to not use such a blunt measure, and it should
only be dropping messages scoring as spam by his rules.

I have no idea about the reasons, but I see the results.

Chris Townley

2023-11-24 15:30:17 UTC

Post by Michael S
On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 14:04:18 +0000

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Michael S
right now Eternal September server drops all comp.os.vms messages
originated at Google Groups.

Are you sure?

Yes, I am.
Neil Rieck continues to post via GG. You can see his posts on GG or on
novabbs.
https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=comp.os.vms
You can't see his posts on E-S.

I have no idea about the reasons, but I see the results.

With nothing appearing in cov yesterday, I logged onto google groups,
and looked at he previous 8 hours - about a 1000 messages, all of which
appeared to be spam. So circa 3000 spam per day!

--
Chris

Grant Taylor

2023-11-24 16:16:50 UTC

Post by Chris Townley
With nothing appearing in cov yesterday, I logged onto google groups,
and looked at he previous 8 hours - about a 1000 messages, all of which
appeared to be spam. So circa 3000 spam per day!

Yep.

I finally gave up, cried uncle, and blocked Google Groups on my system.

Usenet is now a nice place again.

I think 1 legitimate message in 1,000 messages might actually be a bit
high considering some of what I was seeing.

--
Grant. . . .

Chris Townley

2023-11-24 16:44:14 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Chris Townley
With nothing appearing in cov yesterday, I logged onto google groups,
and looked at he previous 8 hours - about a 1000 messages, all of
which appeared to be spam. So circa 3000 spam per day!

Yep.
I finally gave up, cried uncle, and blocked Google Groups on my system.
Usenet is now a nice place again.
I think 1 legitimate message in 1,000 messages might actually be a bit
high considering some of what I was seeing.

How can persuade the legitimate giggle users to move to ES for usenet -
perhaps with another free mail address

--
Chris

Grant Taylor

2023-11-24 16:52:40 UTC

Post by Chris Townley
How can persuade the legitimate giggle users to move to ES for usenet -
perhaps with another free mail address

I would naively assume that Gmail users could use their Gmail address in
their Usenet client connected to E-S.

--
Grant. . . .

Chris Townley

2023-11-24 17:14:11 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Chris Townley
How can persuade the legitimate giggle users to move to ES for usenet
- perhaps with another free mail address

I would naively assume that Gmail users could use their Gmail address in
their Usenet client connected to E-S.

It depends on how others setup their spam filters...

--
Chris

Grant Taylor

2023-11-24 17:39:40 UTC

Post by Chris Townley
It depends on how others setup their spam filters...

I feel like people's ability to use their @gmail.com address on a
non-Google news server is independent of what filters other people are
using.

Or are you suggesting that some people have filters that compare
@gmail.com From: addresses and some other header; e.g. Path:, with the
From: header?

I would expect that any posts From: something @gmail.com would be
filtered no matter where they are sent from if a filter is simply
looking for @gmail.com in the From: header.

Grant. . . .

Andy Burns

2023-11-24 17:16:46 UTC

Post by Grant Taylor

Post by Chris Townley
How can persuade the legitimate giggle users to move to ES for usenet
- perhaps with another free mail address

I would naively assume that Gmail users could use their Gmail address in
their Usenet client connected to E-S.

Indeed several people do just that, which was why I discouraged whoever
it was that suggested blacklisting on from: contains @gmail.com which
would lose John Reagan and several others.

I have reported the false positive on n.rieck's posts

Neil Rieck

2023-11-24 14:08:47 UTC

Post by Michael S

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 2:34:18 PM UTC+2, Neil Rieck

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley

Post by Mark Daniel
Injection-Info contains: google-groups.googlegroups.com

works very well in Thunderbird 115.4.2.

It DOES! 115.4.3 for mine.
Thought I'd previously tried this without success. Go
figure.
Much less of a sledgehammer.

As a Thunderbird user with no filters, I've seen no spam
posts all week.

According to your headers, you appear to be using Eternal
September and they are currently doing the filtering on your
behalf.
Unfortunately, they sometimes filter genuine posts as well that
have wrongly been classified as spam.
Simon.
--
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they
appear.

I wonder if there is something wrong with the group settings of
cov Our group allows anyone to post
Other groups only allow group members to post (so they need to
have a google account, and must first authenticate). Perhaps this
is how they control throttling (like posts per minute). I have
sent a note to google asking how to change these settings If the
settings cannot be changed, then I wonder if we shouldn't create
a new group titled comp.os.openvms
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

comp.os.vms is not a Google group. It is a Usenet group that can be
accessed, apart from other means, via Google's web portal.
Usenet does not have a notion of group membership.

Then I wonder who set the privacy settings for comp.os.linux (gets
SPAM but is tiny by comparison to comp.os.vms) because clicking
"about" on comp.os.linux reveals that anyone posting there must have
a google account.
On a related note, we could create a new group called comp.os.openvms
then set the privacy settings to be more restirctive. Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net

I am afraid that Usenet has no more notion of 'privacy settings' than
it has of membership.
Usenet groups are either moderated or they are not. There is no
middle ground. And making a group moderated is too big hammer which is
obviously impractical in case of this particular group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
BTW, right now Eternal September server drops all comp.os.vms messages
originated at Google Groups. Among other things it means that
approximately half of comp.os.vms community do not see your recent
posts.

Just for shits-n-giggles, use a browser to connect here: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms
Then click on the 3-line hamburger next to the Groups icon.
Then click on "about" to view the privacy settings.
Now do the same for https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux then take notice of the differences

Neil

cao...@pitbulluk.org

2023-11-04 10:26:10 UTC

Post by Neil Rieck
(1) display a page of 30 messages
(2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)
(3) click on the icon containing a circled exclamation (a dialog will pop up)
(4) SPAM will usually be selected by default so click the button "submit report"
I have no idea if/when google's algorithms will kick in to stop this ridiculous non-sense at the source BUT I am hoping that if multiple visitors of this newsgroup do the same as me, then this activity will set off a few alarms somewhere.
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

I've automated it somewhat with cypress and have started flagged the batches of messages as 'hateful content' especially as they're now advertising spells that kill people. The hindi drivel is none too pleasant either.

There was a brief period when the 'Marked as spam etc.' blanking disappeared, along with the message a few hours later. It now seems that I have to scroll through pages of this to get to a legitimate post.

Does Google actually care about this?

K

John Reagan

2023-11-04 14:26:02 UTC

It is now Saturday morning and I was preparing to write a python program which would scan "https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms", detect trigger phrases, then mark the message as SPAM.
(1) display a page of 30 messages
(2) click on the colored icon of any message you wish to flag (you can click up to 30)
(3) click on the icon containing a circled exclamation (a dialog will pop up)
(4) SPAM will usually be selected by default so click the button "submit report"
I have no idea if/when google's algorithms will kick in to stop this ridiculous non-sense at the source BUT I am hoping that if multiple visitors of this newsgroup do the same as me, then this activity will set off a few alarms somewhere.
Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
https://neilrieck.net
https://neilrieck.net/OpenVMS.html

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channels. No difference so far.

Scott Dorsey

2023-11-04 15:25:45 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.

Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Chris Townley

2023-11-04 15:46:25 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.
--scott

Who would you recommend as a legitimate Usenet service? Eternal
September seem to do what they can, but of late have swamped...

I also have an issue with news readers. I use Thunderbird, but for news
it is fairly rubbish

--
Chris

Andy Burns

2023-11-04 15:54:44 UTC

Post by Chris Townley
Who would you recommend as a legitimate Usenet service?

<https://individual.net>

Post by Chris Townley
Eternal September seem to do what they can, but of late have
swamped...
I also have an issue with news readers. I use Thunderbird, but for news
it is fairly rubbish

It's "good enough", if you use v115 and find the new GUI is a bit of a
surprise, pop in to a.c.s.thunderbird for tips on making it look like it
used to

Retro Guy

2023-11-04 16:09:41 UTC

On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 15:46:25 +0000

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.
--scott

Who would you recommend as a legitimate Usenet service? Eternal
September seem to do what they can, but of late have swamped...

news.eternal-september.org is excellent, just going through some improvements
right now so a little downtime is to be expected. The admin is very competent.

Try news.i2pn2.org if you like (note: I'm the admin). It's filtered.
There are others also.

Post by Chris Townley
I also have an issue with news readers. I use Thunderbird, but for news
it is fairly rubbish

I agree with that. I'm not a fan of Thunderbird for news. I'm pretty happy
with sylpheed. It's not perfect, but much better than thunderbird. On Windows
40tude Dialog is pretty nice and has a lot of features. Runs in wine on Linux
also.

--
Retro Guy

Scott Dorsey

2023-11-04 16:28:16 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.

Who would you recommend as a legitimate Usenet service? Eternal
September seem to do what they can, but of late have swamped...

Eternal September is fine. They are good people. They can't filter
everything and they don't drop all Google postings, but they clear a
good fraction of the trash out.

Post by Chris Townley
I also have an issue with news readers. I use Thunderbird, but for news
it is fairly rubbish

HERE is your problem. You need a newsreader that will let you set up
regular expressions for killfiles. I am still using the ancient tin
which may not have a very modern UI but has very effective killfilling.
Other folks here can probably recommend others. Two lines in your killfile
will clear out all of the current spew.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bill

2023-11-04 16:42:21 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.
--scott

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

bill

Chris Townley

2023-11-04 17:52:25 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.
--scott

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.
bill

I reckon they get there own feed

--
Chris

Arne Vajhøj

2023-11-04 18:40:10 UTC

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

I reckon they get there own feed

We have two parties here:
* X NNTP servers
* Google

If *all* of the X NNTP servers stop talking to Google, then
the X NNTP servers will not see posts from Google and Google
will not see posts from the X NNTP servers.

If only X-1 stop talking to Google, then no impact.

Note that I am not recommending the solution. It actually happens
that relevant stuff get posted via Google and spam should be handled
by spam filter not be splitting up.

Arne

bill

2023-11-04 21:02:46 UTC

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

I reckon they get there own feed

* X NNTP servers
* Google
If *all* of the X NNTP servers stop talking to Google, then
the X NNTP servers will not see posts from Google and Google
will not see posts from the X NNTP servers.
If only X-1 stop talking to Google, then no impact.
Note that I am not recommending the solution. It actually happens
that relevant stuff get posted via Google and spam should be handled
by spam filter not be splitting up.

I take it you have never had to admin a USENET News Server. :-)

Chris was right. When one wants to setup a News server one of the
main requirements is to find peers (at least one!). This involves
a person to person agreement to send and receive news. While it is
theoretically possible to run a receive only news server there is no
other way to inject messages into the News system without having a
peer who is already in the system and willing to accept your posts.
When I did this (and my time with USENET goes back to when we were
doing it over POTS) one of the first things a peer was likely to
require was SPAM control. I do not understand why Google gets away
with this crap. I guess like everything else in the IT world there
really are no more rules. Welcome to anarchy.

bill

Johnny Billquist

2023-11-06 11:48:18 UTC

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

I reckon they get there own feed

I take it you have never had to admin a USENET News Server. :-)

I certainly have...

Chris was right. When one wants to setup a News server one of the
main requirements is to find peers (at least one!). This involves
a person to person agreement to send and receive news. While it is
theoretically possible to run a receive only news server there is no
other way to inject messages into the News system without having a
peer who is already in the system and willing to accept your posts.
When I did this (and my time with USENET goes back to when we were
doing it over POTS) one of the first things a peer was likely to
require was SPAM control. I do not understand why Google gets away
with this crap. I guess like everything else in the IT world there
really are no more rules. Welcome to anarchy.

You can have expectations of your peers, but usenet is a distributed
system. There are peers to the peers, cross connections, and in a sense
complete anarchy. You can *not* easily lock anyone or anything out.
And it has always been like this.

And if you've been around, you should also remember the kill wars on
newsgroup creations that happened from time to time. Which is a very
good example of how much of anarchy it was/is.

Johnny

Henry Crun

2023-11-06 14:25:58 UTC

Something to try:
(from the OP of "a cry for help")

using Thunderbird I banned all NNTP articles with "From contains gmail"
Seems to have cut down on this particular brand of spam.
And if it means missing anything that I would be seeing otherwise, I'll just have to live with the consequences.

Fingers crossed, HTH

Mike
-- No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message. Recommended reading:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

Scott Dorsey

2023-11-04 19:48:30 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

The UDP against Google was attempted back in 2005 or so. The general
feeling at the time was that although more posts from Google were trash
than legitimate, the backbone cabal felt that that the legitimate posts
justified the feed.

In the past when a UDP had been proposed, the mere threat of the UDP
caused the site admins to take notice and start dealing with their
problems, so the UDP is primarily more effective as a threat than
anything else. Unfortunately Google doesn't really have anyone actually
running Google Groups. It seems to be mostly unattended, and news admins
have never been able to get in touch with anyone there. So as a threat,
the UDP is useless. It is only useful in action to disable all traffic
and whether or not this is a real benefit is a thing that can be discussed.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bill

2023-11-04 21:04:59 UTC

I've been doing this manually and also reported to Google thru other channe=
ls. No difference so far.

Google is not the solution. Google is the problem. Expecting anyone at
Google to ever do anything about their customers' constant and incessant
abuse of Usenet is futile. It has been going on for decades now and
complaints to Google have never done any good.
Get off Google, and get onto a legitimate Usenet service. Many of them
block postings from Google, and the ones that don't will allow you a
normal newsreader which has services to block this stuff.

Some one has to be providing Google with a feed. The answer is to get
all of them to stop providing any kind of connection to Google.

I certainly would not agree with that.

Post by Scott Dorsey
In the past when a UDP had been proposed, the mere threat of the UDP
caused the site admins to take notice and start dealing with their
problems, so the UDP is primarily more effective as a threat than
anything else. Unfortunately Google doesn't really have anyone actually
running Google Groups. It seems to be mostly unattended, and news admins
have never been able to get in touch with anyone there. So as a threat,
the UDP is useless. It is only useful in action to disable all traffic
and whether or not this is a real benefit is a thing that can be discussed.

Then, it is time to impose the UDP. It takes no action on the part of
Google to do this.

bill

Subcommandante XDelta

2023-11-24 12:32:22 UTC

I've re-responded from the root post, however, I have read all of the
extant threads of the topic.

I wave the white flag, I surrender, this torrential flood of mutating
spam is overwhelming, manual adjustments of my ad-hoc kill-filters, in
forte agent, on windows, just isn't cutting the mustard any more.

What is the best-practice best-practice, in terms of usenet feeds,
usenet reader clients, and kill-filters, or bayesian spam filtering,
that minimises baby bathwater frienly fire collateral damage, and
stays on top of this synamically devolving situation?

Has anyone achieved this? - please do report in, thank you.

Simon Clubley

2023-11-24 13:13:22 UTC

Post by Subcommandante XDelta
I wave the white flag, I surrender, this torrential flood of mutating
spam is overwhelming, manual adjustments of my ad-hoc kill-filters, in
forte agent, on windows, just isn't cutting the mustard any more.
What is the best-practice best-practice, in terms of usenet feeds,
usenet reader clients, and kill-filters, or bayesian spam filtering,
that minimises baby bathwater frienly fire collateral damage, and
stays on top of this synamically devolving situation?
Has anyone achieved this? - please do report in, thank you.

Yes. Use Eternal September. I lose all the Google Groups postings to
comp.os.vms, which is unfortunate, but it is a lot better than the
alternative.

Others here have also reported good things about news.i2pn2.org.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, ***@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

Andy Burns

2023-11-24 13:28:45 UTC